Loksound Select Micro: Fast vs. Slow Spitters

[tehachapifan]

On two of the sound files I have loaded into Select Micros (GE 12cyl 7FDL Dash-7 [FT] and GE 16cyl FDL Early [FT]), the "fast spitters" are a little to rapid-fire for my liking and I prefer the "slow spitters" on both these files. Sure, I can manually activate either by hitting F15 (fast spitters) or F21 (slow spitters), but I would like them to come on automatically on startup. I found how to activate the fast spitters automatically by setting CV415 to 64 after setting CV32 to 2, but I would like to know if the slow spitters could be substituted somehow. Looking at the 2012 manual, I can't find the control CV's for these particular sounds on the mapping table and blelieve some of the sounds and sound slots have changed since this edition and with the recent FT upgrades, but I can't find the new table values listed anywhere. Ideas?

Thanks!

[jdcolombo]

Hi Russ.

The LokSound Select manual is useless.  Most of it is out of date and a chunk of it is simply wrong.  ESU really should simply delete it from its web site, and start publishing short "FAQ's" with updated information until they can put together an updated manual.

Try this.

The slow spitters are in sound slot 17, according to the summary on ESU's web site of the sound slot assignments for the 16-cyl FD Early (FT) file.  In order to activate the slow spitters when F8 is on (e.g., with the prime mover), you need to program CV416 (not 415) with a value of 1.  You also need to disable the fast spitters which you turned on by programming CV415 with a value of 64.  The problem is that I don't know what the default value of CV415 was before you changed it; CV415 controls the status of sound slots 9-16.  From the list of sound slots on ESU's web site for the 16-cyl FDL Early, it looks to me like you should be fine with setting CV415 to zero.  Remember that before you program either of these CV's, you'll need to set CV31=16 and CV32=2.

If it works, post here and then I'll share some secrets on how to figure this kind of stuff out . . .

John C.

[tehachapifan]

BAM! Worked like a charm!

I have no idea how you came up with that, but I knew you'd probably be they guy with the answer.

I did also change CV415 back to 0 and there were no issues.

Thanks!!

[jdcolombo]

Great!

OK, so here's a very long explanation that you might want to print out and file away somewhere.

Although the LokSound Select manual is useless, the V.4 manual isn't - at least, pages 52-56 aren't.  The process for doing what you wanted starts with the 40-line table on page 52 of the V.4 manual.  This is what I'll call the "function mapping table" (FMT for short), although it is a bit more complex than this.  And the table is just as applicable to a LokSound Select as a V.4 - in fact, for almost all programming tasks like changing the behavior of a function key or changing or adding a lighting effect, the V.4 and Select decoders are identical.

This table provides 40 options (the 40 rows) for "programming" various behaviors of a LokSound decoder.  Notice that the first 9 columns of this table are called the "Conditions Block."  This is the area where you set up a specific row to respond to a set of conditions.  The Conditions that are available are Locomotive "driving" (e.g., speed >0), Locomotive stopped, Locomotive in forward direction, Locomotive in Reverse, and then some function key (or combination of keys) are on or off.  For example, say you want the headlight on when the locomotive is in the forward direction and F0 is on.  To make this happen, you take one of the 40 rows, and first set your conditions.  You have two conditions: F0 is ON and the locomotive is in the forward direction.  You set these conditions in a particular row of the table by using the CV's listed in Columns  CVA - CVI for each row.  To find out which CV in each column does what, you turn the page, where you will see a listing for what the CV's in each column do.  On page 53 of the V.4 manual, you will see that the CV's in Column CVA set the conditions of whether the loco is running or stopped, forward or reverse, and whether F0 and F1 are on or off.  The rest of the columns in the Conditions Block can set the conditions for the rest of the function keys - for example, the CV's in Column CVB can set whether F2-F5 are on or off.  This means that each row can define conditions that involve one or multiple function keys.  If you wanted to do so, for example, you could set up a row that would tell the LokSound to turn on the headlight only if F0, F1, F2, F3 and F4 were all ON. 

OK.  Now that you've set your conditions, note that the next three sets of columns are labeled Physical Outputs, Logic Outputs and Sound Functions.  What the CV's in these columns do is tell the LokSound what behavior to execute when the conditions that you have set in the Conditions block are met.  So let's return to our example - you want the headlight on when F0 is on and the locomotive is in the forward direction.  To do this, we are going to use Row1 of the table.  So, you set these conditions by programming CV257 with a value of 20 (16 for F0=ON plus 4 for Locomotive in Forward).  Now you go to to the columns in Row 1 labeled "Physical Outputs" - these columns control what we typically refer to as "function outputs": e.g., the headlight wire (white wire), the backup light wire (Yellow) and any auxiliary functions (e.g., in a 4-function decoder, you will have the white wire, yellow wire, and two more outputs that ESU calls Aux1 and Aux2).  What we need to do is find the CV in the Physical Ouptuts columns that turns on the headlight.  So, turn to page 54, lower RH column, which tells you that the CV's in Column CVK control whether the headlight, rear light, and Aux1-Aux6 are on or off.  We want the headlight to be on, so we need to program the CV in Column CVK for Row 1 with a value of 1.  That CV is CV266.  Now you have set up the LokSound so that when F0 is on and the loco is in the forward direction, the headlight will be on.  If the loco is in reverse, then the conditions in Row 1 will not be met, and the headlight will not turn on.

Now notice that the last 3 columns of the table on page 52 of the V.4 manual are for "sound functions".  Just as you can tell the LokSound to turn on (or turn off) a physical output (like the headlight) on a  particular set of conditions (e.g., F0=ON and Loco is in Forward), you can assign sounds to a set of conditions.  LokSound Select decoders have 24 sound slots, so to assign sounds to a set of conditions, you need to know which sounds are in which slots.  Fortunately, Matt Hermann has started listing the sound slot assignments as part of the descriptions of the Select sound files on the ESU web site.  That is where I found out that the fast spitters are in Sound Slot 15, and the Slow Spitters are in sound slot 17 for your GE files.  You'll also see that the prime mover is always assigned to Sound Slot 1.

So, let's say that you wanted to activate the prime mover sound when F8 is ON.  To do this, you would take a row of our table - let's use Row 10, which I'll explain in a moment - to do this.  First, we need to set the condition of F8=ON by programming CV403 with a value of 16.  (Here's a test for you: why did I use CV403, and why a value of 16?).  Now we want to tell the LokSound that when this condition is met, it should turn on Sound Slot 1.  So we go to the columns for Sound Functions for Row 10, and find on page 56 of the V.4 manual that Column CVO is the column that controls Sound Slot 1.  For row 10, this is CV414.  If we program CV414 with a value of 1, the LokSound will turn on Sound Slot 1 (the prime mover sound slot) when F8 is on.  Now suppose you want the Slow Spitters also to come on when F8 is on.  We know from the description of the sound file that the slow spitters are in sound slot 17.  So let's go to page 56 of the V.4 manual and see which CV column of the table controls Sound Slot 17.  That's Column CVQ, which for Row 10 is CV416.  By programming CV416 with a value of 1, you tell the LokSound to turn on Sound Slot 17 (which has the slow spitters sound) when F8=On.  Put all this together, and you have now programmed F8 to turn on both Sound Slot 1 (prime mover) and Sound Slot 17 (slow spitters) when F8 is ON.

Now for the tough question.  Why did I use Row 10 of the table to do this?  Well, note that the 40-row table does NOT have any reference to function keys.  That's because in ESU's world, the status of a function key is simply a condition that you can program in ANY of the 40 rows.  There is no "mandatory" row for programming any particular function key.  But that in turn means that a critical piece of information is missing.  In order to change the behavior of a function key in a LokSound, you need to know WHICH ROW of the 40-row table is used to program that function key's status.  Unfortunately, ESU doesn't actually tell you this information.

BUT . . . the LokSound Select sound files that you download from ESU's web site all follow a common "map" for function keys.  This common map is to use the first two rows of the 40-row table for F0 (row 1 is FO-Forward and row 2 is F0-Reverse).  Then the next 21 rows are used to define the LokSound's behavior when Function keys F1- F21 are ON.  That is, in a LokSound select sound file, Row 3 is set up with the condition F1=ON; Row 4 is set up with the condition F2=ON, and so forth.  That means that in a "default" Select sound file, Row 10 is set up with the condition F8=ON.  That's why I used Row 10 to set up the sounds for your prime mover and slow spitter in the example above, and that is why I told you to program CV416 with a value of 1 to turn on the slow spitters with the prime mover.  Now here's another test problem for you: suppose that you want the bell to come on whenever you blow the horn.  Can you tell me (1) what row of the 40-row table you are going to look at for the CV's to change to make this happen and (2) what CV you will change to (3) what value.

Now, having said all this, programming function key behavior using raw CV's is VERY dangerous.  The reason it is dangerous is two-fold.  First, you have to remember to set the Index CV's (CV31 and CV32) to the correct values before programming a Control CV number.  CV31 must always be set to 16.  But CV32 can change depending on which row of the table you are programming.  If you look again at the 40-line table on page 52 of the V.4 manual, you will see that the very first column gives you the value for CV32 for each row.  It is NOT always 2; sometimes you have to set CV32=3 or CV32=4 to access the correct Control CV. 

Second, remember that there is no mandatory assignment of function keys to rows of the table.  It so happens that LokSound Select decoders typically use Row 10 to define the behavior for F8=ON.  But you COULD use any row to do that.  You could use Row 21; you could have blank rows; you could define the behavior of F8 in Row 1, and define the behavior of F0-Forward in Row 7.  This means that unless you are VERY SURE how this mapping table is set up, you should not go messing around with raw CV's.  How did I know to use CV416 to do what you wanted?  It really was an educated guess - I knew that you were using a LokSound Select sound file from the ESU web site, and I knew what the "standard" setup for the mapping table is for these files (that is, I knew that Row 10 is used by default to define the behavior of F8=ON).  But it is not ALWAYS the case that the mapping table will be set up this way.  For example, Intermountain sets up Row 8 a little differently.  Instead of Row 8 defining the behavior of F6=ON, it adds another condition: the locomotive must be in forward direction.  That is, on the SD40-2 sound file, Row 8 of the table has the conditions F6=On and Loco in Forward.  Suppose the loco is in reverse?  Well, Intermountain uses a "spare" row of the table (row 24) to set the behavior for that set of conditions.  So if you wanted to change the behavior of F6 in the SD40-2 sound file, you'd have to know to change both Row 8 and Row 24 to accomplish your goal.

This is why nearly everyone who does much LokSound programming uses a LokProgrammer or JMRI's Decoder Pro to do it.  What each of these programs will do is read all the decoder CV's, then populate the function mapping table with the correct values stored in the decoder.  That's really the ONLY way to know FOR SURE how the mapping table is set up: have some software program read all the CV's from the decoder.  But I realize not everyone has these tools, and IF a person is working with an UNMODIFIED LokSound Select sound file from ESU's web site (as opposed to an OEM file from Atlas or Intermountain), I can pretty much figure out what CV's to change using the information on pages 52-56 of the V.4 manual.  There is also a way to do this using the LokProgrammer software (even if you don't have the hardware), but this message has gotten long enough.

Happy spitting . . .

John C.

PS - I'll post the answers to my "test questions" in the next couple of days, after you've had time to contemplate them . . .

[tehachapifan]

Great info, John! Thanks for taking the time to post it!

I looks like I was sort of barking up a somewhat nearby tree prior to my post, where I tried changing CV415 to 1 after setting CV32 to 3 to try to get to what I figured might be sound slot 17. Glad I didn't mess anything up (as far as I can tell). Thought I was really on to something at the time!

I forgot about the V4 manual being more comprehensive. I've referred to it before for something but can't remember why at the moment.

[jdcolombo]

Just remember that there is a lot of useless info in the V.4 manual, as well.  For example, the information in the LH column on page 56 regarding column CVM (the Logic Outputs) lists the wrong values for grade crossing and dimmer.  And the standard mapping information on pages 57-61 is COMPLETELY wrong.  The information on setting up special lighting effects is correct as far as I can tell, though.

This is really gross negligence on the part of ESU.  If you're not going to have useful/correct information in your manuals, you need to get rid of them.  People think (rightly so) that if a manual is on a manufacturer's web site, it must be correct.  Not so in this case, and it can cause real problems if people start messing around with raw CV's to try to change things.

John C.

[tehachapifan]

OK, as posted in another thread, I have one of the new #73100 Select Direct Micro boards loaded with the 75407(FT) sound file installed in an SD45T-2 and it sounds great. However, I can't seem to get the pop valve/spitter sound to come on automatically with F8 after setting CV 415 to 64 and after making sure that CV 32=2. This has worked on all my regular Select Micro's with different sound files. Don't know if this has to do with the new board or the actual sound file. Might this be controlled via a different CV with this board or sound file? Thanks!

[RBrodzinsky]

Don’t forget to set CV416 to 1

[tehachapifan]

Yeah, my original draft included that but somehow got omitted. That didn't work either.

[RBrodzinsky]

Russ, ok, how above about CV31=16?

I will go fire up LokProgrammer to double check the sound slots used in the file.

[RBrodzinsky]

Ah HA!  The mapping table for this sound file is different.  Instead of 416, you need to use 432.  Set 415, 416 and 431 to 0 (which is the default for these in this file).  Set 432 to 1  (all with CV31=16, CV32=2)

[tehachapifan]

Bingo! That's it!

Now, where in the LokProgrammer did you figure this out? I recently got one and I'm still learning how to use it.

Thanks!

[RBrodzinsky]

Go back to John’ second post in this thread. The table he refers to on pages 52-56 of the manual are the Function Mapping table. Each row refers to a set of conditions for the function(s) specified at the beginning of the row. If you have the LokProgrammer software, open the sound project file, and go to the Function Mapping tab. Count down to F8 and you will see it is on row 11. Most projects, F8 is on row 10. I immediately noticed the dual entry for F4 (one moving, the other stopped).

Of course, if you now have a LokProgrammer, just use this table, and for the F8 row, in the right hand column (Sound), along with the prime mover (sound slot 1), simply also check “Slow Spitter Valves” (sound slot 17).

[tehachapifan]

Thanks! John probably couldn't have written that reply any clearer but it makes my head hurt trying to digest and decipher it all. Plus, in the LokProgrammer on the mapping tab/page, I am simply not seeing where and what you are doing to identify the CV's involved and what they need to be set to. I really have trouble trying to change anything on that page and I don't see anything that can be checked. Maybe I'm not on the right tab/page?

[RBrodzinsky]

I will post some screen shots in the morning.