Questions on passenger trains in Hagerstown, Maryland

[brokemoto]

Is it true that the Western Maryland ran passenger trains between Hagerstown and Baltimore until 1956, or so, until the POD non-renewed the mail contract?.......or was it between Cumberland and Baltimore and they just ran through Hagerstown?............was it until 1956 or did it end in 1953?

Does anyone out there know if B&O, PRR or N&W ran any passenger trains to, through or from there after the 1930s?  If so, until when did those railroads run them?

Thank you in advance.

[pjm20]

The PRR and N&W ran some through sleepers at Hagerstown along with a lot of mail. These services petered out in the early 50s. If you want more specifics, just give me some time to hunt down my documentation.

[brokemoto]

Thank you for the reply.  It took the correct phrasing of the search engine question, but I did manage to learn a little more.  I did learn that N&W ran the "New York" trains as #1 and #13 from Roanoke.  Funny, I could not learn the Eastbound counterpart numbers.  I am guessing #2 and #14.  PRR took over in Hagerstown and ran them to Harrisburg and then New York.  I could not learn if either had a Boston extension on the NYNH&H.  The latest dates that I saw mentioned were in 1948.

I could not learn if B&O ran any passenger trains there after the 1930s.

[pjm20]

If remember correctly, there was also a Pittsburgh sleeper at one time too.

[Mark5]

Thank you for the reply.  It took the correct phrasing of the search engine question, but I did manage to learn a little more.  I did learn that N&W ran the "New York" trains as #1 and #13 from Roanoke.  Funny, I could not learn the Eastbound counterpart numbers.  I am guessing #2 and #14.  PRR took over in Hagerstown and ran them to Harrisburg and then New York.  I could not learn if either had a Boston extension on the NYNH&H.  The latest dates that I saw mentioned were in 1948.

@brokemoto

The 13 & 14 ran into the late 1950s.

The PRR discontinued the connecting trains for trains 1&2 to New York in June 1962. But ... the N&W kept the 1 & 2 going. As you might know, N&W ran a sleeper between Roanoke and NY on these trains, so the N&W arranged with C&O to have the sleepers switched to the C&O on the Fast Flying Virginian to New York connecting to the 1 & 2 trains in Waynesboro, VA. Dining car service ended on these trains at that time. As a result, the Waynesboro to Hagerstown chunk of the 1 & 2 ended in June 1962.

Then, the C&O discontinued the Fast Flying Virginian in October 1962 ...

This left the 1 & 2 with no northward connection, and the N&W stopped the 1 & 2 on February 2, 1963.

These trains had been running for 78 years.

Mark

[Mark5]

Is it true that the Western Maryland ran passenger trains between Hagerstown and Baltimore until 1956, or so, until the POD non-renewed the mail contract?.......or was it between Cumberland and Baltimore and they just ran through Hagerstown?............was it until 1956 or did it end in 1953?

@wm3798

"The last passenger train was run from Elkins to Durbin in April 1959."

http://www.alphabetroute.com/wm/history.php

Hopefully Lee Weldon will chime in as to when it ended in Hagerstown. Or I can stop by the Hagerstown Roundhouse museum some time.

Mark

[Mark5]

The B&O had a branch that ran from Weverton to Hagerstown off of the Metropolitan Subdivision.

Last time I checked there was still a little trackage in use south of Hagerstown.

I doubt it there was passenger service but I don't know for sure (for a while I lived by the ROW).

Mark

[brokemoto]

Mark5, thank you for the information. 

I am aware that the B&O had a branch from the Metropolitan Sub to Hagerstown.  They had a branch to Frederick, as well.  There was passenger service on both at least until the First World War, but after that I can not be sure.  I have seen photographs from the nineteenth century and early twentieth that showed B&O and Penn passenger trains in Frederick and Hagerstown, but nothing after that, 

There is something that survives that runs into Frederick.   MARC is going to, or already is, running commuter service into that city.  I am not sure who owns or owned that track, though.

The WM train from Elkins to Durbin was a mixed in its last years. 

In Baltimore, the WM ran its passenger trains into a station on Hillen Street (ironically, almost katty korner to the old MBK).  A small station was built in 1954 to replace a station that the rairoad tore down, so that would suggest the 1956/57 date for the cessation of passenger service, there (I seem to recall either a 1953 or 1956/57 date for cessation of passenger service on the WM to Baltimore, but I could be mistaken).  The warehouse/freight house survives as a Public Storage.  There was an engine house, as well.  I do wonder what WM  used for switchers there.  The Pacifics that pulled the passenger trains burned oil.  If WM ever had an oil burning switcher or freight steam engine, I have never seen a photograph of one.

 B&O did  have oil burning switchers that worked the docks in the Inner Harbour and the street trackage around it, which was not that far south of Hillen Street.  The B&O also used electric power in Baltimore.  The electrics simply coupled up to the train, the steam locomotive engineer opened all the valves and the things dragged the train, engine(s) and all, through Baltimore.  Some of the electrics had a rather curious method of collecting current.  It was a diamond "pantograph" that sat at an angle and operated on what was essentially an overhead third rail.  There were, as well, electrics that ran on a conventional third rail.  Mt. Royal Station had the overhead third rail.

Baltimore did have some rather strict smoke abatement laws.  What is funny is that back then, you could get the smoke abatement boys off your case if you ran oil burners (except in New York City).  Every oil burner that I ever have seen either in reality or on movies throws just as much smoke as a coal burner, so I do not get that one.  In fact, I am aware of a story about an incident that happened back in the days of Southern's steam programme when they were running that Texas and Pacific engine.  Supposedly, the fireman did not know what he was doing, the train ran into a tunnel and blew out the fire (it is not that difficult to blow out the fire on an oil burner).  Of course, there are open cars in the consist, of course, the pumps keep working as the train is  drifting and....................................


At any rate, thank you for the replies, so far.  We seem to have the N&W/Penn and a good guess at the WM, but nothing on the B&O.  If there were any into Hagerstown after the 1930s, I would guess that it were gas-electrics.  I have seen photographs of those things on the Old Main into the 1950s.  Dennison's hobby store used to  have more than a few of them.

[Point353]

We seem to have the N&W/Penn and a good guess at the WM, but nothing on the B&O.  If there were any into Hagerstown after the 1930s, I would guess that it were gas-electrics.  I have seen photographs of those things on the Old Main into the 1950s. 

This site states that B&O passenger service to Hagerstown ended on 11/01/1949:
http://www.borail.net/Timeline.html

Wikipedia mentions that use of gas-electric cars on the Frederick branch began in 1933:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Branch_(Baltimore_and_Ohio_Railroad)

Undated (maybe the autos in the background provide a clue) photo of a B&O gas-electric car in Hagerstown:


https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9c/66/5e/9c665e14297e5278e6ea02695ec1420e--baltimore-ohio.jpg

[brokemoto]

Thank you for the photograph.  Those automobiles appear to be late 1940s, so this photograph must come from the last days of  B&O passenger service in Hagerstown.  Too bad that I can not tell from the photograph if that one window RPO/baggage car is all steel or wood with a steel underframe.  It would make a pretty good bashing project. The trailer car appears to be green.  That would not be surprising, as many of B&O's head end cars were green into the 1950s, as well as the commuter coaches.   

There is a similar photograph out there of a B&O doodlebug street running in Springfield, Illinois, but I can not find it, now. It is towing a baggage car.   If I recall correctly, that doodlebug did not have safety stripes, so the application of them was inconsistent.  The car in Illinois may have been green.  There were some B&O doodlebugs that were green, some Blue and Grey and some all BandO blue.  The passenger service to Frederick also ended in 1949, although, it appears that MARC restored it some time past.

It appears that there was passenger service in Hagerstown, Maryland from every road that ran into it until 1949.  Up to 1956/7, there was passenger service from Western Maryland, Penn and N&W.  From 1956/57-1962 it was only Penn and N&W.  After 1962, it was gone completely.

Thank you.

[Mark5]

Cool pic in Hagerstown ... the Hotel Dagmar is still there.