MRC 2-6-0 with sound.

[robert3985]

This is exactly what I'm talking about - Digitrax's "getting used to it" is way too lengthy of a process . Most model railroaders don't want to keep going back to a crappy manual (or Google) to try to figure out what to do. It is frustrating.  They rather play with trains. So a system which is more intuitive and which communicates with the user in more-or-less plain English (instead of gibberish and acronyms), will be much better choice for that average model railroader.  Yes, when they buy any new DCC system they will have to spend some time read the manual and set it up, but then they will be off and running in much faster time than driving a 15-speed Peterbilt (see what I did there) which needs double clothing and has airbrakes.

It took me three days of "getting used to it" after I had my DCC test platform set up to be familiar with my Digitrax starter set enough to feel competent with it.  I was running trains in less than 10 minutes after getting it all plugged in, but hadn't yet learned exactly how to change engine addresses, speed match, consist and how to modify CV's for light, sound and operational preferences....but, I could acquire and run in 10 minutes...from reading the crap manual.  Since I see a lot of inquiries here and other places about how to get NCE or Lenz or MRC systems to do certain things, it is abundantly evident that every DCC system needs to be learned, used, learned and used.  Is ten minutes too long?  Is three evenings too long to get familiar with the majority of features involved in running and programming?  It wasn't for me.  Evidently, it's not for thousands of other Digitrax users.  It's just your opinion that "getting used to" Digitrax is "way too lengthy a process", and I bet you cannot give me a valid time envelope that has anything to do with how long is okay and how long is too lengthy.

Please define the "average" model railroader.  How do you know what that is?  You're just assuming Peter as to what most model railroaders want.  Sure, you could be right, but not because of any significant poll of model railroaders or gathered facts & figures.  Personally, I don't care what "most" model railroaders want, just what I want.  If I was concerned about the "average model railroader" very much, I wouldn't be at TRW making small-talk with Peteski de Snarkski.  

To me the ideal DCC system would have extremely short learning curve and totally intuitive to use. As close to a DC throttle as possible.  Digitrax is the most farther removed from my ideal as it can be.

Actually, once you find and use the easily accessible runarounds to their crap manuals, they offer the closest to DC throttle in the industry, which is the Digitrax UT4 Utility Throttle, available in plug-in/infra-red or radio duplex.  Look at it here: http://www.digitrax.com/products/throttles/ut4d/  So Peter, your contention that "Digitrax is the most farther removed from my ideal as it can be." isn't entirely true.

Nothing that NCE offers comes even close to the simplicity and "traditional" quality of this throttle.  I run six of 'em, for guests, newbies, kids and grand children.

You can say all you want in defense of Digitrax but I wont change my mind or stop speaking my mind.    Future DCC users need to be warned that Digitrax is the rough-riding truck of DCC with a manual transmission. If they want a smooth running Mercedes, they need to look elsewhere.   

I am not defending Digitrax, but I am giving an alternate view from yours and and other Digitrax bashers.  I offer valid advice to future DCC users derived from years of experience using Digitrax, and consciously and deliberately choosing Digitrax over all the other systems.  I have no intent for you to change your mind, or stop speaking it either.  By the same token, I won't stop speaking my mind either.  It's one of the reasons I am at TRW, which allows spirited discussions and disagreement. 

Future DCC users need to also know that every DCC system has its pluses and minuses, and that none of them should be singled out arbitrarily because of mere "opinion" or assumptions as to what "most model railroaders" needs are.

As to your Mercedes/rough-riding-truck comparison...Have you ever owned a Mercedes?  I have, and it was the most complicated, difficult to learn automobile to use all of its features I have ever owned.  The centralized wiper that described a truncated arc on the windshield was an excellent example of the uber-complexity that dominated the build on the automobile.  Yup, it was a dream to cruise at 150mph on two-lane highway in Nevada on a moonlit night, with my CB, Beartracker and electronic countermeasures turned on, but...if you are saying that a Mercedes is simple and ergonomic, you haven't ever owned a modern one.  Having had direct Mercedes-experience, I judge your Mercedes-rough-riding truck comparo invalid....I'd say Digitrax is a Range Rover, and NCE is a Subaru...when your DCC requirements get steeper, you'll be glad for the extra ground clearance, granny low and low RPM torque that Digitrax offers.

We could go about this forever.  But that might not be what TRW members want to see.

I agree that TRW members might want to see something else.  If that's so, then they can simply not read our comments.

In the end Peter, I always agree with some of your points about Digitrax, and you agree with me about some of my points too.  What I don't agree with is your assumptions as to what "most" model railroaders should have.  My thought is that they should have what they want, but there are few choices in this world that are entirely, exactly what we want...including DCC choices. 

Obviously, if "most" model railroaders agreed with you, then Digitrax would be out of business, which it isn't.  From the evidence, there are a lot of model railroaders who choose Digitrax over other DCC systems, and can live with crap manuals and a steep learning curve...because Digitrax offers things that the other systems do not offer, which seems to be what thousands of model railroaders want.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[peteski]

You win Bob - Digitrax is the cat's meow, pleasure to operate and everything you said is true and accurate.  Otherwise we would have to discuss this to death.

Still, I know of plenty of modelers who do not use Digitrax, and there are also many other DCC manufacturers who seem to be thriving, even with the Digitrax's apparent domination.  You can draw your own conclusions.

[Chris333]

So I hate to bring this back up again... 

Still toying with the idea of now buying the MRC 2-6-0 with sound and only running it on DC. I have a Walther's 2-8-8-2 with sound that I use on DC. My question is can I still add those tantalum chip caps? Well not can I, but will they work on DC? Since you have to turn the power up so high in DC before a DCC loco will start to work it would have the voltage needed to power the caps.

I'm asking because my 2-8-8-2 sort of runs like crap due to the finicky pick-ups. I can barely make a lap around the layout without the sound and loco stopping and restarting.

[hminky]

Didn't read all the crap on this thread because most of the comments aren't about the LOCO.

Play gently children!

Got mine and I love the loco.

Sounds great for N-Scale steam and performs smooth on DCC like it was intended.

Dual mode is a rather lame idea.

Harold

[peteski]

Yes you could Chris but they won't work as well as they do on DC.  I think a better solution would be to fix or add more pickups and keep the rails clean. That applies even if you added those caps.

[Chris333]

Others have had the same problems with sound locos and interrupted sound due to pick-ups. The 2-8-8-2 has a lot of pick-ups (20 wheels) and still fails. Just worried that a small 2-6-0 will be even worse.

I guess I can first try to put the caps in the 2-8-8-2 and see if that works on DC.

[Mark5]

Chris,

Did the 2-8-8-2 release with sound add the tender pickup to the powertrain? I have the 1st release which has tender pickup, but it does not feed into the motor.

Mark

[Chris333]

Chris,

Did the 2-8-8-2 release with sound add the tender pickup to the powertrain? I have the 1st release which has tender pickup, but it does not feed into the motor.

Mark

Crap I dunno, Have to dig it out.

[robert3985]

Yes you could Chris but they won't work as well as they do on DC.  I think a better solution would be to fix or add more pickups and keep the rails clean. That applies even if you added those caps.

+1

Sounds like Chris has a track problem, not an engine problem.   

Peter, you got a down vote on this remark for some unknown reason, so I upvoted it out of existence...

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Chris333]

I've heard Dave Vollmer say the sound is always cutting out on his 2-8-8-2. And he is on DCC.

[Missaberoad]

Didn't read all the crap on this thread because most of the comments aren't about the LOCO.

Welcome to the Railwire. we tend to do that here. 

[robert3985]

I've heard Dave Vollmer say the sound is always cutting out on his 2-8-8-2. And he is on DCC.

Well Chris, there certainly is the possibility that the engines stopping and sound re-booting all the time IS an engine problem. And if it's doing it randomly over the layout, then that supports that contention.  However, if it's doing it only on certain spots on the layout, then it's almost 100% a track problem.  Whether ya got DCC or DC is beside the point, other than the caps work better on DCC...as does the decoder, but not better enough to compensate 100% for bad electrical continuity on your track.

When I converted to DCC, I went through my entire layout and soldered feeders on every single piece of rail on the layout.  It was a huge effort, but after I was done and had my DCC up and running, I haven't had any electrical dead spots anywhere, so I guess the conclusion would be that the effort was worth it.

I did discover however, that "electrical continuity" doesn't just mean feeders everywhere, but also applies to eliminating bumps and dips in trackwork.  Normal operations on my layout consist of big motive power...turbines, Big Boys, FEF's and Challengers and these large wheelbase engines are particularly sensitive to dips and bumps.  I've had to smooth a few spots which the engines would run over just fine, but electrical continuity was momentarily interrupted and the sound would reboot.  My Kato E's and PA's also had sound problems due to the C-trucks, but my GP-7/9's, F's, FA's and other B-truck diesels seemed to tolerate the bumps and dips without problems.  You might check whether there are dips & bumps where the sound cuts out on your big engines, but not with smaller ones.

All in all, gotta remember that more technology sometimes reveals problems that simply weren't there before, such as sound cutting out, but the engines rolling on uninterrupted.  Without sound, who would know there was a momentary electrical discontinuity?

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[peteski]

+1

Sounds like Chris has a track problem, not an engine problem.   

Peter, you got a down vote on this remark for some unknown reason, so I upvoted it out of existence...

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Thanks Bob.
I actually got several down-votes between today and yesterday and I haven't really post that many things (and none warranting down-votes). I think we have someone with a grudge against me on the lose.  I might have to get discuss this with the admins. 

[Chris333]

@Mark5  I didn't open it up and look, but the 2-8-8-2 I have works with just the tender on the rails so the truck must be wired up.

[Mark5]

@Mark5  I didn't open it up and look, but the 2-8-8-2 I have works with just the tender on the rails so the truck must be wired up.

Ah, well we can cross that off the list of suspects.