The Turbines Are Coming! The Turbines Are Coming!

[sundowner]

Wow, the big boy makes even a GTEL look small. Cant wait until mine show up, in my little world UP pull 26 out of Ogden Union Station and brought back to full working condition just like they are doing with 4014.

[C855B]

A pair of turbine sets arrived in the mail this morning. Gorgeous. Even Robyn commented how finely-detailed they were. No pics until I get them over to the layout building, which may or may not be this afternoon, given the cold I'm fighting.

According to the manual, decoder is 21-pin. I am absolutely not clear whether these non-sound units are DCC-equipped, or what the status is of the connection if I need to provide my own. Manual makes no distinction, the exploded diagram is clearly for the sound-equipped version. I don't want to take these apart to see what is or isn't there, not just yet.

[Philip H]

A pair of turbine sets arrived in the mail this morning. Gorgeous. Even Robyn commented how finely-detailed they were. No pics until I get them over to the layout building, which may or may not be this afternoon, given the cold I'm fighting.

According to the manual, decoder is 21-pin. I am absolutely not clear whether these non-sound units are DCC-equipped, or what the status is of the connection if I need to provide my own. Manual makes no distinction, the exploded diagram is clearly for the sound-equipped version. I don't want to take these apart to see what is or isn't there, not just yet.

 Hope you feel better soon.

I'd say the decoder equipped sytatus will be determined pretty much as soon as you throw it on the programming track and attempt to read back a CV or 2.

[C855B]

Confirmed: non-sound version is DC. Haven't popped the shell yet to see what they have done relative to the main circuit board, and whether it has jumpers or something like a vestigial circuit board I can wire a plain-jane decoder to. That'll have to wait, at the moment I'm too foggy from the cold medicine.

[AKNscale]

Rivet counters are in at MTS

[peteski]

Could this be it? http://www.sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/21mtcconnector.html  If it is, then that seems like a poor choice for a universal DCC interface, There are other, more widely accepted sound decoder connectors out there (Like the "Next" and "Plux" interfaces).
http://www.locgeek.com/2012/12/digital-plugs-yes-theyve-gone-crazy/

I'm also confused why they even mention the type of connector used when the decoder is already hardwired inside the DCC-equipped model). Similar SNAFU happened with the IM SD40-2 where they mentioned Next18 interface for the decoder  which is a complete circuit board inside the model (no connector).

[Chris333]

In stock at MBK...run!

[mu26aeh]

I am hoping Kleins will stock these.

They were just posted this evening (Thursday)

[CBQ Fan]

They were just posted this evening (Thursday)

Thank you!

[C855B]

OK, here we go. First impressions:





Runs very nicely. Again, I bought DC-only with the intent to retrofit a non-sound decoder. It was a little noisy at first, but broke-in to reasonably quiet after only about 5 minutes of run time. A-B speed matching was very good, so no worries there. I was a little surprised by no movement until 1/3 throttle; it reduced to 1/4 after minimal break-in, so it may yet improve. Rear headlight on tender was directional on DC but obviously not on DCC; you folks with the sound versions will have to answer whether they put another decoder back there just for the headlight. Rear headlight also flickered a lot, so I suspect the wheels need to be cleaned of manufacturing residue.

Couplers, frankly, are a problem. They would not mate with MTL until forced by hand. Heck, they would barely mate with each other. They seem to be some manner of McHenry copy, but slightly smaller and certainly lacking the smooth operation and compatibility. They will need to be replaced. However, don't expect 1015's to fit - the box is about 0.020" thinner than the 1015's, and the body openings expect it. There are instructions for retrofitting MTLs that involves using their springs (supplied in a little baggie), but I didn't try it out or determine which size shank was the proper fit.

A-unit innards:





Yes, Pete, it appears to be a 21MTC connector. I wasn't able to immediately determine what variant, but the way the pins are oriented from the motherboard it appears neither PluX format will work.

[peteski]

Thanks for the quick review Mike.

You seem to have been surprised that both units had well matched speed.  Well, they are similar mechanism with no electronics. Why wouldn't they be speed-matched? 

One thing that seems odd (although not easily discerned in those photos): it seems that the right windshield pane is hanging out of the opening in the body. That is the first thing I noticed in the photo. Is than an illusion or is it really not fitted well?

So the DC PC-Board does have a 21 pin interface. I wonder if that is what the DCC unit has (with the decoder simply installed in the connector).  This also limits the types of decoders one can plug-n-play into this model (but I'm sure hard-wiring any decoder won't be a problem) - there's already a bunch of factory-installed wires in there.  No wonder the model is so expensive - it takes time to solder all those wires.   

[C855B]

A-B speed matching was a production issue which delayed release, and mentioned as a problem at a recent demo. Just confirming it wasn't an issue with this pair.

I'll check that windshield tomorrow. You're right, it looks out of kilter. Hope it's not glued.

That picture is of the "jumper" board , the decoder placeholder. The motherboard pins insert from the bottom of the PCB. I ordered ESU non-sound 21-pin decoders to fit the two sets I have. We'll see if they are drop-in. I noticed that Zimo has an equivalent, too, and I almost pulled the trigger on that rather than the ESU. However, since the stock sound unit is the ESU SelectLok, I went with ESU to hedge my bets.

[robert3985]

...Couplers, frankly, are a problem. They would not mate with MTL until forced by hand. Heck, they would barely mate with each other. They seem to be some manner of McHenry copy, but slightly smaller and certainly lacking the smooth operation and compatibility. They will need to be replaced. However, don't expect 1015's to fit - the box is about 0.020" thinner than the 1015's, and the body openings expect it. There are instructions for retrofitting MTLs that involves using their springs (supplied in a little baggie), but I didn't try it out or determine which size shank was the proper fit.

You really only need to replace one coupler on the GTEL lashup as prototypically, the two units and tender were only uncoupled during engines servicing inside the UP diesel enginehouse in Salt Lake City.  Also, they were rarely double-headed (only when doing power transfers as UP east vs west tonnage and trains were unequal), and never (as far as any photo I have ever seen) used as helpers on the end of trains on either the Wasatch grade or Sherman Hill. Many photos show the front coupler as having a flawless paint job, because it was rarely used.

This means the one coupler to replace would be on the rear of the fuel tender.  If the stock couplers are tight, that could very well prevent the units from slinky-ing around during slow speed yard movements, whereas using MT's would encourage that very unprototypical action.

Just sayin' 

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Chris333]

Isn't it illegal to paint couplers and wheels? You need to be able to see cracks.

[peteski]

A-B speed matching was a production issue which delayed release, and mentioned as a problem at a recent demo. Just confirming it wasn't an issue with this pair.

Yeah, but wasn't that a DCC problem?
I suspect that both units use the same mechanical components, so they should be more-or-less speed-matched by default (using DC). Unless there was some sort of assembly or mechanical issue in one of the units.

Bob, the McHenry-like knuckle spring on the side of the coupler doesn't look very prototypical to me. IMO, it would make sense to replace the front coupler too (maybe even install the proto-size MT coupler).