Author Topic: Airslide color assist  (Read 2614 times)

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peteski

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Re: Airslide color assist
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2016, 04:19:29 PM »
+1
I wouldn't.  You're going to just have to take the modules outside to photograph the models.  :P

Bryan, the color scale effect in modeling has nothing to do with faded (weathered or aged) paint.  It is a school of thought which is followed by many modelers (mainly in the military modeling, but it applies to all scale models).  The basic premise is that in life, the further away you are from an object, the the lighter its color appears (mostly due to the haze in the air). Just like distant hills appear to be lighter in color from the ones closer to you.  Since our models are small, it is as if we were looking at them from a distance, thus their colors should be slightly lighter than the actual reference color chip would indicate.

A really good explanation of this school of thought is here

Personally I'm on a fence as to whether this is something I want to utilize. I would say yes, if all I did was viewed my models from few feet away, but more and more of us get into macro-photography where we take photos of out models in extreme closeup.  Then, just like in life, the model's color should be rich and vivid.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 04:21:17 PM by peteski »
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bbussey

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Re: Airslide color assist
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2016, 05:23:05 PM »
0
Pete, my response was to Tom's query about having the cars look more natural under indoor (artificial) light.
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peteski

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Re: Airslide color assist
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2016, 06:33:51 PM »
0
Pete, my response was to Tom's query about having the cars look more natural under indoor (artificial) light.

Tom's query stated
Quote
Would you recommend adjusting these colors so that they look truer to the prototype when scaled down?

To me that seems more like Tom is describing the color scale effect, not indoor lighting.  No lighting is mentioned, but scale is.
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Chris333

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Re: Airslide color assist
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2016, 06:41:03 PM »
0
When I google search those Pantone colors I get like 4-5 different shades all called the same number...

C855B

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Re: Airslide color assist
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2016, 07:33:38 PM »
0
When I google search those Pantone colors I get like 4-5 different shades all called the same number...

Half of the battle in using Pantone is knowing how the system works. There may be several very close hues with the same number, where you cannot ignore the letter suffix, which takes into consideration how the color is being printed, and on what medium. The 'C' in Bryan's list signifies "coated paper". The same number with a 'U' would be, conversely, uncoated paper. There's yet another standard where the same number is to be expressed in the closest CMYK screened values ('P', for process, IIRC). There may even be yet another standard for spec'ing the similar color under RGB video, but I exited the print world before it came to that.

They have a whole 'nuther system for specifying colors in plastics. I don't know if there are overlaps with the print PMS values.
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bbussey

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Re: Airslide color assist
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2016, 09:00:18 PM »
0
Tom's query stated
To me that seems more like Tom is describing the color scale effect, not indoor lighting.  No lighting is mentioned, but scale is.

Okay ... I still wouldn't alter the color. The modeler can "haze fade" the model if desired.
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nickelplate759

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Re: Airslide color assist
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2016, 12:06:48 AM »
+2
Bryan, the color scale effect in modeling has nothing to do with faded (weathered or aged) paint.  It is a school of thought which is followed by many modelers (mainly in the military modeling, but it applies to all scale models).  The basic premise is that in life, the further away you are from an object, the the lighter its color appears (mostly due to the haze in the air). Just like distant hills appear to be lighter in color from the ones closer to you.  Since our models are small, it is as if we were looking at them from a distance, thus their colors should be slightly lighter than the actual reference color chip would indicate...

Obviously, what's needed isn't an adjustment in paint color, but rather whiter (a.k.a. hazy) air. 

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Missaberoad

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Re: Airslide color assist
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2016, 12:39:24 AM »
+5
Obviously, what's needed isn't an adjustment in paint color, but rather whiter (a.k.a. hazy) air. 

George

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Chris333

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Re: Airslide color assist
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2016, 12:44:11 AM »
+3
"Coming this fall from BLI N scale Atmosphere:trollface:
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Catt

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Re: Airslide color assist
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2016, 11:59:34 AM »
0
would be nice if MTL could find away to produce the more or less common colour cars with data only for us freelancers. :D
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peteski

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Re: Airslide color assist
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2016, 12:58:26 PM »
0
would be nice if MTL could find away to produce the more or less common colour cars with data only for us freelancers. :D

You mean like Kadee did with their Micro-Trains Line boxcars in the '70s and '80s?  :)
They probably didn't sell well enough.
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chicken45

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Re: Airslide color assist
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2016, 04:22:48 PM »
0
No. We must make all modelers do things our way, because it's the right way! All cars must fade!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :trollface:
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Big Train

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Re: Airslide color assist
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2016, 08:52:59 AM »
+1
Sorry for the late response. Was in Northern Ontario on vacation but I do want to make some comments that may be germane to this discussion.

For a while, I've been advocating the use of the Federal Standard 595 Specification (commonly used acronyms are Fed Spec or FS) while describing paint colours for model railroad painting.

The military modelling community basically uses this for a while and I think it provides a more accurate way to analyze colour and paint matching. Some hobby paint manufacturers actually print the FS along with colour description on the label. Their colour charts often use them and there are scores of websites where modellers have painstakingly cross-reference FS to model paint.

 Since we are discussing blue in this thread I've linked to thi

http://www.colorserver.net/showpalette.asp?group=5

If you select FS 36200 you get this:

http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=35200

While Pantone provides a quick reference for printing and reflected art using ink, Pantone samples from the computer screen (transmitted light) can lead to a series of errors in assumptions, such as monitor gamma and monitor colour temperature. Where Pantone will work, more or less, is when you can actually approach the prototype with the Pantone fan deck of printed colours and using the "Mark 1 Eyeball" match the colour.

Now, under artificial light another factor to consider is "metamorism failure":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamerism_(color)

And in a nutshell, that means that whatever appears as a match in daylight may appear off under artificial light for a variety of reasons, chiefly changes in spectral response between the light source (tungsten light being redder, fluorescent being greener) and whatever additives the paint manufacturer added during compounding of the pigment. A typical example often cited is a wedding dress that appears white to the naked eye can sometimes appear a very light blue when illuminated by photographer's electronic flash because of optical brighteners used during the manufacture of the material and the flash (back then anyways) having a higher UV output.

Other considerations under artificial light or even daylight, is the effect of the colour of any reflective surfaces adjacent to the object being seen. That's why the FS colour samples are surrounded in a neutral background.

I once rejected a batch of painted aluminum wheels that were slightly off after matching the drift card against the wheels. We had a specially modified room (18% grey walls)  and under conditions specified by the company's procedure (wait 15 mins with the room light off and using only the illumination of a specially calibrated lamp) only to have the president of the company take the wheel outside with the drift card and pronounced it looked like a match to him. Well, yes, here on this side of the ocean, but when the wheel gets to Germany and they do there product approval thing using the same standards, maybe not

Colour matching has been vexing model aircraft and armour guys for years. But using FS and the scale effect  (which Peteski provided a link) to seems to produce a better result for these guys.

I would say to paint this car slightly lighter than the prototype for the scale effect. It's easier, in my opinion, to weather a car darker than to lighten it.

Hope this helps.

bbussey

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Re: Airslide color assist
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2016, 09:43:50 AM »
0
Most if not all of the manufacturers and overseas contractors have the official Pantone color guide swatches, so everyone is working from the same point of reference.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2016, 09:45:22 AM by bbussey »
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learmoia

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Re: Airslide color assist
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2016, 01:37:45 PM »
0
Most if not all of the manufacturers and overseas contractors have the official Pantone color guide swatches, so everyone is working from the same point of reference.


As long as everyone is referenced to the same point.... 

~Ian