Author Topic: N-scale Pennsylvania RR Transcon "Rapids" Series Sleeper Decals For My COLA  (Read 3877 times)

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robert3985

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Thought I'd call on the resources of all the SPF's here at TRW and see if any Pennsy decals for Transcon sleepers are available for the Tippecanoe Rapids or Stoney Rapids 10-6 sleepers used on the middle 50's to middle 60's COLA. Did I actually type "middle 60's"????  I meant 1954 thru 1956.  Musta been sleepy!  :trollface:

Pennsy painted their Transcon sleepers in UP colors, with red Pennsy lettering with black outlines, and I have been unable to find ANY decals to re-letter my Walthers 10-6 sleepers in UP to Pennsy by removing the UP lettering first.

If this fails, then I'll be calling on a friend of mine who may be able to print some out with his old ALPS printer, but I'd rather find high quality decals and just buy 'em if I can.

Additionally, NYC also contributed two 10-6 sleepers to the COLA trains, but I have not been able to find any information on their cars other than they didn't re-paint them to UP yellow & grey and that they were 10-6's.  Anybody know anything about them?

Thanks in advance for information on Pennsy decals and/or NYC Transcon 10-6 sleepers!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 01:28:50 AM by robert3985 »

AlbertSpor

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I would be interested in these decals as well, if any exist.
Albert Spor
Albert Spor

dougnelson

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I have not seen these decals, but Kato did a Tippicanoe Rapids a while back. It is a sleeper, but I believe it is not correct for the Rapids series:


Here is a photo of the prototype:


And here is the lettering diagram:


I hope that is of some help.

bbussey

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InterMountain offered 18-roomette PRR transcontinental sleepers in the UP scheme that are prototypical.
Bryan Busséy
NHRHTA #2246
NSE #1117
www.bbussey.net


peteski

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If this fails, then I'll be calling on a friend of mine who may be able to print some out with his old ALPS printer, but I'd rather find high quality decals and just buy 'em if I can.


You say that as if Alps decals were poor quality.  Alps printers (old or new - they all work the same way) can print lettering as good as any silk-screened decal.  The only possible problem is getting certain colors to match.  :)
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AlbertSpor

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Hi,

The Kato car is nice, but it is a 6-6-4, these were not used in transcon service, in UP yellow paint. The Intermountain 18 roomette and the Kato Budd 21 roomette cars were shorter lived in transcon service. The Walthers 10-6 and the Rivarossi 10-6, lasted longer in transcon service. I already have these cars, and I suspect Robert does as well, hence the desire for decals.  The Rivarossi car can also be painted in the Overland two tone gray scheme as well, but would then need a silver Pennsylvania decal.

Albert Spor
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OldEastRR

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Robert, check your PM.

hnipper

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If these decals materialize, I would love a set also.

Thanks to the OP for bringing this up. The Buffalo Rapids was in the consist provided to Kato in their lead up to production, and this Pennsy 10-6 sleeper is the only car that is impossible to find in the correct livery.

I've been hoping that a decal manufacturer or Kato would eventually make this happen.

All the best,
Henry
Way out here in Uncle Pete's land.....

robert3985

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You say that as if Alps decals were poor quality.  Alps printers (old or new - they all work the same way) can print lettering as good as any silk-screened decal.  The only possible problem is getting certain colors to match.  :)

Peter,

Not at all what I mean.  Just that my friend will need artwork from me, and I'll have to find references for a railroad I'm not familiar with, etc., etc....just a lot more work than being able to simply buy a sheet from someone who has already done all that work.  :)  I am fully aware of the excellent quality that can come out of an Alps printer, as my friend has made UP decals for me in the past, so colors won't be a problem with the Transcon Pennsy 10-6 "Rapids" series sheet...just everything else.

I've done quite a bit of research on the Pennsy 10-6 "Rapids" series sleeper, and it is a unique car to the Pennsy particularly with the single belt rail under the windows.  The Walther's (now discontinued of course  :x ) is pretty close, with only the small windows on either side on the vestibule end needing to be centered on the window line rather than being oriented towards the top of the window line (but not even with it).

Here's a good photo of the Conestoga Rapids, showing the centered position of the small vestibule side-end window, plus some roof vents down on the other end that the Walthers 10-6 model doesn't have, but could be easily added.  Wish I had a photo of the other side...maybe some will show up...

Photo (1) Conestoga Rapids Pullman 10-6 Sleeper Pennsy Colors:


Here's a quote from Pullman Shops about the Tippecanoe Rapids and Stoney Rapids 10-6 Transcon sleepers for added info as to the dates they were painted UP colors:  "10 roomette-6 doublebedroom Stoney Rapids was delivered by Pullman and placed in service in December 1948. It and Tippecanoe Rapids were the two cars PRR contributed to a New York - Los Angeles transcontinental pool with the Union Pacific, which added five Pacific series 10-6's. This Pullman line was operated on the Admiral on the PRR and the Los Angeles Limited on the UP/C&NW. The PRR cars were painted the standard PRR tuscan red until 1955 when the transcontinental line was moved to the UP City of Los Angeles. At that time both cars (Tippecanoe Rapids 4/29/55, Stoney Rapids 6/9/55) were repainted into the UP Streamliners scheme of Armour yellow and Harbormist gray but still lettered Pennsylvania on the letterboard. On October 30, 1955 to routing between Chicago and Omaha was changed from C&NW to the Milwaukee Road. Fall of 1956 the service was changed to every other day, and Tippecanoe Rapids was removed from the pool and repainted PRR colors. Transcontinental service ended October 26, 1956, but Stoney Rapids was not repaint to PRR colors until July of 1958."

@dougnelson  I also found some information about the Buffalo Rapids 10-6 Pullman in your posting, which you're already probably aware of, but I thought I'd include that info which I got on the Keystone Crossing site since it also contains information about one of the NYC 10-6 sleepers: "Spent time painted yellow for transcontinental service via the Overland Route. May have been lot 3200. 2/1/68 to Penn Central #4302. 1970 Whitelined, scrapped. Known paint history: 10/50 painted and delivered in UP 2-Tone Grey for interchange service. 4/54 painted UP 2-Tone Grey 5/55 painted UP Yellow 6/58 painted Tuscan Red 1954 assignment: 7 car pool protecting alternating route. Day 1: PRR 1 CNW-UP-SP 27 SP-UP-CNW 28 PRR 2 Day 2: NYC 19 CNW-UP-SP 27 CNW-UP-SP 28 NYC 22 Pool of 10-6 cars as follows: NYC (p. 4123) 'PASSAIC RIVER' PRR (p. 4123) 'BUFFALO RAPIDS' (two tone grey) UP (p. 9522) 'PACIFIC LODGE' UP (p. 9522) 'PACIFIC UNION' UP (p. 9522) 'PACIFIC WATERS' SP (p. 4140C) '9037' SP (p. 4140C) '9039' "

I'm not sure if the Buffalo Rapids was ever included in the COLA lashup, but since it initially was painted in UP TTG, with silver PRR lettering, it was probably originally for the UP's Challenger.  Coulda been assigned to either the COP or COSF also...which I will be investigating at another time.

However, I did notice in Doug's photo (from "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Car Painting & Lettering, p. 80" ) that by 1957, when the photo was taken, that the skirting on this Rapids series sleeper had changed and the small window (at least on the photographed side) on the vestibule end, had been removed.  I will assume that when it was in interchange with the UP in 1955-1956 (my layout era) that it was in original form, as photos of other Rapids series sleepers I've been able to find show them to be original in this time period, but not in UP colors.

My good friend Nate Goodman @Nato has a huge collection of books dealing with passenger equipment, so I have a phone call in to him to see if he can assist with mo' photos of this particular class of PRR sleepers.  Stay tuned....

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 12:34:53 AM by robert3985 »

OldEastRR

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Isn't the KATO 10-6 from the Broadway Limited set the same car type?

robert3985

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Isn't the KATO 10-6 from the Broadway Limited set the same car type?

Oddly, this car never comes up as a solution to the Rapids series problem with the Kato COLA consist. Maybe it's because it would involve breaking up a Broadway Limited set, stripping, repainting and then still having to come up with red Pennsy decals????? 

I did some research and it appears the Kato Rapids series of Pennsy sleepers (Shuylkill Rapids, Turtle Rapids, Octoraro Rapids, Raccoon Rapids) have the correct vestibule-end small window centered correctly top to bottom, and the skirting appears to be the same as Doug's photo of the Buffalo Rapids.

Of course, since they're Kato passenger cars, they've got that nice chrome window edging, which is a real bonus IMO. 

However, they evidently are RARE, as my search of the internet and eBay yielded exactly zero results for any presently for sale, and only one Broadway Limited set on eBay.

Anybody here have one or two extras they'd be willing to sell for me to strip and repaint?  Hmmmm???

Also, I became aware that the 10-6 Rapids series of Pennsy sleepers were manufactured by both Pullman and ACL, which accounts for the missing vestibule-end window in Doug's Buffalo Rapids photo, which is evidently an ACL built car. It'd be fairly easy to plug that window opening on the Kato car to get a proper Buffalo Rapids since it's got to be stripped and repainted anyway.

I also found several color and B&W photos of the NYC "River" series of 10-6 sleepers, and I am beginning to suspect that the Passaic River NYC car was one that ran in Transcon service with the COLA.  NYC had at least one more River series 10-6 sleeper for Transcon service, but I haven't been able to find a name yet, but at least one is a good start!

ONWARD!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
Bob Gilmore

Nato

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 :|    I' am only a closet Pennsy Freak, but to get the exact spacing and font type I would recommend the "Pennsylvania Railroad Historical and Technical Society" they have painting and lettering diagrams that give those measurements. One could also take say a Microscale  Pennsylvania decal sheet in N and measure the road name lettering to have red Pennsylvania made. I may be wrong , but I do not believe black outlining  was used on the road name or car name on these cars, the B&W photo posted earlier of the "Buffalo Bob Smith Rapids" car is hard to tell from. Yes the Broadway Kato large set features cars with the more correct skirting for the Buffalo and Tippycanoe  cars, and no I' am not breaking up my Broadway set which is going to run behind a Sound Value Bachmann GG1 if they ever come out, not Kato's locomotive that throws traction tires frequently. Two Tone Gray 10-6 would have run on the Overland Limited, there was also through car service to the Bay Area, as the PRR CZ car Silver Rapids indicates, the Los Angeles Challenger and SF Challengers were discontinued just after WW II and a new Los Angeles Challenger with sleepers, but no transcon car was inaugurated in 1954. Nate Goodman (Nato).  :|

nickelplate759

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The Rivarossi (Atlas, Arnold) 10-6 is a model of the PRR ACF car, so you could use that for Buffalo Rapids.
You might want to add the belt rail under the windows, and it looks like Buffalo Rapids has another belt rail above them.

<EDIT> It turns out that this is NOT the same car (see below) - the prototype has rivets(!).  My apologies </EDIT>

George
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 09:12:02 AM by nickelplate759 »
George

NKPH&TS #3628

I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

OldEastRR

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Robert:

Not now, but when the BL sets came out there were lots of single cars offered on feebay and elsewhere. I sold lots of them because I wanted BM70ms so had to unload most of the other cars in the sets. I even had a couple of 10-6s I couldn't get rid of for a long time. But not now.
I understand your problem. I needed a UP "Pacific" 10-6 for my Pennsylvania Limited. So I used the Atlas car for a while, until KATO came out with the corrugated cars, one of which was a 10-6 like the UP's but had to have all the fluting  above the windows removed. So I did that. Then KATO brings out the COLA with correct 10-6s. And again I'm buying whole sets to get a few certain cars.

As for the Atlas/RR car, it doesn't represent the cars you want. That ACF version had riveted design with seams, and belt rails above and below the windows. They were part of an order for MP/PRR pool cars. You can read about it and see the drawings (of the Buffalo Rapids) in
Pennsylvania RR 10-6 sleeping car
by Sebastian-Coleman, George
from Model Railroader July 1996  p. 89


You'll have to be a real rivet-counter to make the Atlas car into this, using Archer rivet decals (about a zillion) and thin styrene strips for the belt rails. After that getting the right decals will seem very easy.

PHANTO68

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Oddly, this car never comes up as a solution to the Rapids series problem with the Kato COLA consist. Maybe it's because it would involve breaking up a Broadway Limited set, stripping, repainting and then still having to come up with red Pennsy decals????? 

I did some research and it appears the Kato Rapids series of Pennsy sleepers (Shuylkill Rapids, Turtle Rapids, Octoraro Rapids, Raccoon Rapids) have the correct vestibule-end small window centered correctly top to bottom, and the skirting appears to be the same as Doug's photo of the Buffalo Rapids.

Of course, since they're Kato passenger cars, they've got that nice chrome window edging, which is a real bonus IMO. 

However, they evidently are RARE, as my search of the internet and eBay yielded exactly zero results for any presently for sale, and only one Broadway Limited set on eBay.

Anybody here have one or two extras they'd be willing to sell for me to strip and repaint?  Hmmmm???

Also, I became aware that the 10-6 Rapids series of Pennsy sleepers were manufactured by both Pullman and ACL, which accounts for the missing vestibule-end window in Doug's Buffalo Rapids photo, which is evidently an ACL built car. It'd be fairly easy to plug that window opening on the Kato car to get a proper Buffalo Rapids since it's got to be stripped and repainted anyway.

I also found several color and B&W photos of the NYC "River" series of 10-6 sleepers, and I am beginning to suspect that the Passaic River NYC car was one that ran in Transcon service with the COLA.  NYC had at least one more River series 10-6 sleeper for Transcon service, but I haven't been able to find a name yet, but at least one is a good start!

ONWARD!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
Bob Gilmore

Greetings.  I can provide some of the Kato Rapids series sleepers (Shuylkill Rapids, Turtle Rapids, Octoraro Rapids, Raccoon Rapids) from the Broadway Limited set, if you really want them.

Robert Pierce