I'm done with DCC, or nothing wrong with KISS

[Scottl]

Digitrax uses hexadecimal numbers?      I'm pretty sure the last time I saw a hexadecimal number was in 1983.

[peteski]

I think most people do not like Digitrax because it uses hexadecimal numbers. Some people cannot get past "A", "B", "C", "D", "E" and "F" representing numbers. Digitrax made it easy, just use the conversion chart in the back of the manual. Yes I agree, for many this is an issue and that is why we have so many different manufactures of DCC products, competition makes the market place better for all of us.    

Yes, add me to the "I don't find Digitrax that difficult" crowd 

LOL, not at all (for me). I have been dealing with hex, octal, binary, words, bytes, nibbles, little- and big-endian most of my working life.  That is not a problem for me at all.   I do most of the calculations in my head.

It is the the overall awkwardness of the Digitrax design.  The silly Ops switches which are either thrown or closed. WTF?  What is wrong with a simple on/off or open/closed terminology?    The poor layout of the throttles and the very cryptic display. Plain English prompts (like on NCE throttles for example) would be much more welcome by anybody (especially some model railroader who just wants to run his trains, not learn another language).

[Rich_S]

It is the the overall awkwardness of the Digitrax design.  The silly Ops switches which are either thrown or closed. WTF?  What is wrong with a simple on/off or open/closed terminology?    The poor layout of the throttles and the very cryptic display. Plain English prompts (like on NCE throttles for example) would be much more welcome by anybody (especially some model railroader who just wants to run his trains, not learn another language).

Pete, That is the funny part as I don't find the Digitrax DT100 awkward. Of course awkward for me is trying to figure out what the little icons in web browsers are for?? I'm the type of person that does not mind clicking on menu's to find what I need, verses trying to figure out what the little icons are suppose to represent We are all different and I have to wonder why CV 5 is for VMax and CV 6 is for VMid? Six is a higher number than five? There are many inconsistency's in this world, I guess I just get use to the verbiage and move on

Also I believe the OP switch is "t" for thrown or "c" for cleared. You'll have to ask AJ and Zana why they used that terminology instead of on or off? 

[narrowminded]

Pete, That is the funny part as I don't find the Digitrax DT100 awkward. Of course awkward for me is trying to figure out what the little icons in web browsers are for?? I'm the type of person that does not mind clicking on menu's to find what I need, verses trying to figure out what the little icons are suppose to represent We are all different and I have to wonder why CV 5 is for VMax and CV 6 is for VMid? Six is a higher number than five? There are many inconsistency's in this world, I guess I just get use to the verbiage and move on

Also I believe the OP switch is "t" for thrown or "c" for cleared. You'll have to ask AJ and Zana why they used that terminology instead of on or off? 

Having your own little language is not unheard of in any industry/ profession but I think it is especially true of the computer/ electronics crowd (and medical).  That's fine when you're operating within the industry but when you're putting a product out for general consumption you don't impress them with your clever language, you just tick them off.  Come on down to my technical world and I can leave you in the dust with buzz words OR I can speak plainly and clearly so it's not so tough for a reasonably intelligent person to understand at some level.  If they really don't know how to stoop to the common man's level, they would do well to have an intelligent person who is not familiar with their industry do a test read of their product instruction and word choices and see if they couldn't clean it up a little, not use a language to protect their precious little turf.  Or maybe if they did that they'd lose their mystery.   Or maybe I'm showing my age.

[peteski]

Narrowminded, that is exactly the point.  Make and sell a system which is easy to comprehend and intuitive to an average person who happens to also be a model railroader.

Rich, I'm not even talking about icons (I hate those too!)  I'm talking about plain English display menus, and easy to understand manuals.  No cryptic abbreviations or codes.

Speaking of awkward icons, I have a perfect example.  Just the other day my mother called me that some sort of warning light was illuminated on her car's dashboard.  She said it it was yellow with soem sort fo strange picture and an exclamation point.  Well, it was the low tire pressure warning (which can tbe triggered by colder ambient temps when the air inside the tires contracts). But the icon itself is a cross-section of a tire with an exclamation point inside it.

How silly is that.  How many average people know what a tire cross-section looks like?  Probably not very many.    The icon should show a side view of a car's wheel, maybe even showing the bottom of it being flat.  That would be much more understandable than a cross section of a (properly inflated) tire.   

I think that the proliferation of icons without a legend is to make them language-independent. If there were legends explaining the meaning, those would have to be different depending on the country where the product is sold.   While there are several icons or pictographs which are universally understood, I think manufacturers took this concept too far.

[OldEastRR]

I'm not a fan of Digitrax, but I am impressed that they seem to be the only DCC system that lets you run a non-DCC loco on a DCC layout. Even more, apparently there are things called "jump cabs" that take the output of DC throttles and turn it into a separate addresses run by DCC. Take the non-DCC option and the two "jump cabs" and that's three opportunities where you can run your nonDCC locos with your DCC ones. And the nifty part if you can just switch around the DC locos and probably be able to run any of your old favorites which would otherwise be a pain to convert to DCC. Meaning all your locos are useable and none have to be "retired" from service on your layout.
If some other  system has these features, I'd like to know what it is.

[Mark5]

It is my understanding that it is a bad idea to run an "analog" loco on DCC even if the system supports it.

When I go DCC, I am wiring my layout such that I can toggle between DCC and DC so that I can run older locos if I want.

[reinhardtjh]

Even more, apparently there are things called "jump cabs" that take the output of DC throttles and turn it into a separate addresses run by DCC. Take the non-DCC option and the two "jump cabs" and that's three opportunities where you can run your nonDCC locos with your DCC ones.

The jump cabs are only available with the Zephyr and Zephyr Xtra.  What they are actually is a DC input which the Zephyr converts to a DCC signal.  It won't let you run any more DC engines on the track. The NMRA DCC specs only allow address 0 for that, which means only one DC engine (or set of engines) at a time.

For the jump cabs you can use anything that creates a -12 -- +12 DC voltage.  No pulses, just a voltage that varies according to the control. It can be a DC power pack or something specially constructed.  See this page on the DCC Wiki --> http://www.dccwiki.com/Jump_Port

[reinhardtjh]

It is my understanding that it is a bad idea to run an "analog" loco on DCC even if the system supports it.

It greatly depends on the motor design.  Some will be destroyed in seconds ( coreless types) and others work fine for hours.  Almost all will heat up more than what they would in normal DC usage. Most also produce a buzzing or singing sound from the DCC pulses.

When I go DCC, I am wiring my layout such that I can toggle between DCC and DC so that I can run older locos if I want.

My test layout has been wired so that I switch power sources with a Molex-type plug.  When I want to test DC I plug the DC power pack in and when I want to text DCC I swap the DCC system in. 

[Scottl]

466f722074686520446967697472617820757365727321

 

[peteski]

Analog running on cab address 0 (zero-stretching of the DCC track signal) was probably done to make the transition from DC to DCC less painful in the early days of DCC. I don't know if that "feature" is part of the NMRA spec or not.

I think in the beginning most DCC systems offered that functionality, but as the time went by it was discontinued.   I know that CVP EasyDCC did have it (I remember messing around with it and hearing the strange tones coming from the DC model, and feeling the warmth while touching the hood in the motor area).  But they got rid of it in one of the firmware updates several years ago.

As it has been said, it is not a good ideal to use that feature.  DC models "sing" all the time and the motors will heat up or even get damaged (even when the model is not running since the motor still receives full voltage DCC pulses, which cause the armature to vibrate and heat uo).

[peteski]

466f722074686520446967697472617820757365727321

 

Were you cleaning your keyboard Scott? 

[Scottl]

I thought you could read hexidecimal 

[peteski]

I thought you could read hexidecimal 

I can, but that number is too large for me to convert in my head.  It is probably larger than US national debt. Plus, you didn't prefix it with 0x or included an h suffix. 

[C855B]

http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/number/hex-to-ascii.htm