Is This Even Real? (GHB brass)

[muktown128]

Max,

I ordered two of the discounted locos yesterday.  I can take pics after they arrive or send one of them to you if you are interested in seeing it first hand and would like to tinker with it.

Scott

[Spades]

Email from George Barsky of GHB to the N gauge group yahoo

The models have problems and are NOT suitable for sale as Craftsman
Specials.

I have advised Factory Direct Trains [actually BLI] not to sell the brass
models or even give them away. Retailers can sell or do whatever they
like. These models need to be repaired by the factory in China with all
new wheels sets and correct the electrical wiring and other items. I sent
the factory a checklist of A thru V of items for them to fix or be sure
there are no problems.

Detail and finish wise the engines are excellent. The major problem is
with the wheel gauge of ALL wheels engine and tender, and the backwards
wiring. Here is the list of items sent to the factory for them to repair
or replace if needed. The engines will not operate through Atlas code 65
or 55 switches and crossings. Simple loops - yes - but in reverse from
normal directions.

The Factory Direct offerings need to go back to the China factory. The
original distributor of those models, Hobbytyme, was specifically
instructed to send them back to the China factory and they agreed to do
that.

Next thing I knew they were sold to BLI at a dumping price. I understand
all the implications and I have tried my best to correct the problems.
This new BLI/Factory Direct Trains dumping complicates the issue.

When the repaired models are returned they will be excellent. It is one of
the vagaries of the model business and having to deal with foreign
manufacturers. Nobody, especially me, wanted any of these problems. My

ambition was to make a very excellent quality brass N scale PRR L-1 because
it had never been done before. Many hours of emails, drawings, photos,
circuit diagrams, and an O scale KTM brass model were used to insure high
quality, etc.

Its a very long and complicated story and the end result were problems I
was not aware of when the shipment came in. Only shortly afterward were
they discovered. I am still trying to recover from this episode and supply
a high quality model.

Anyone previously purchasing an L-1 model should return it where they
bought it. It has to go back through the distribution channels where it
came from and be sent back to the Chinese factory for repair or
replacement. I know who purchased directly from GHB. I don't know who
purchased elsewhere. I will stand behind direct purchasers to repair or
replace models.

I cannot stand behind purchasers of the dumped models from BLI/FDT. Buy at
your own discretion. Yes, I am deeply troubled by this episode and I am
doing all I can to seriously produce excellent models. GHB has been in the
import business since 1978 and has produced N, HO, O and G scale brass
models and others.

FOR ALL ENGINES:
A. corrected wheel gauge to NMRA N scale specification - ALL wheels
B. driver gear cover must clear rail tops on switches and crossings
C. tender water scoop must clear rail tops on switches and crossings
D. corrected direction forward when right rail is +
E. head and tender lights must operate and agree with direction
F. inner drawbar hole enlargement to allow connection to tender pin
G. tender drawbar pin to be mounted or screwed on tightly to tender
H. tender rear MTL coupler mounted properly without damage
I. drawbar connected to tender pin with elastic anti slip band below it
J. cab deck plate resting flat on tender deck
K. no loose screws - all tightened properly
L. test operation on code 55 switches AND crossing in both directions
M. test operation on code 65 switches AND crossing in both directions
N. simulate train weight with a weighted flat car coupled to tender.
O. COLORED foam between engine cab and tender - Black foam is hard to see
and customers may try to operate the model not realizing there is a piece
of foam wedged between engine and tender for protection. However, if
COLORED foam is used it is more visible and expected to be removed prior to
operation by the customer.
P. No bent or loose details like bell, cab rails, boiler braces, etc.
Q. Be sure motor operates and is connected to the gearbox. One of the 8
test engines was free rolling and motor not operating.
R. Test all new manufactured wheels to be sure they meet NMRA N
specifications. Test before mounting on models. Roll through code 55
switches AND crossing checking there is no interference at the guard rails.
That includes pilot, trailing and tender wheels.

S. Absolutely NO BROKEN WIRES.
T. Tender wheel electrical pick-up use .003 in. / 0.0760 mm thick
phosphor-bronze wire or sheet material.
U. Replace the tender truck springs either half as long or with half the
force will get a great increase in electrical pickup performance.
V. All box labels are marked with correct engine numbers.

Please pass this information to others who may be affected or interested.

George Barsky
GHB International

[central.vermont]

This has been a very interesting read from all parties. But one thing I wonder that was not pointed out in the A-V list is are they going to have blackened wheels now with the new wheels sets?

Jon

[delamaize]

Other than the possible challenge of re gauging the wheels, I don't see anything that couldn't be fixed by someone with kitbashing/scratchbuilding skills.

[muktown128]

I received an email this morning from FDT announcing their blowout sale of the GHB locos at 67% off.

Sounds like they didn't get the message from George...

Scott

[reinhardtjh]

I received an email this morning from FDT announcing their blowout sale of the GHB locos at 67% off.

Sounds like they didn't get the message from George...

Scott

Or don't care...

I'm still waffling on taking a chance on one of these.

[Chris333]

I would have never even noticed the polarity thing. One time I posted a close-up of some chassis I was working on and it was pointed out to me that I wired it backwards. Never heard of such a thing. Guess it matters for double heading though.

Note to self: Never try to import a run of brass models 


Seriously though what is the price difference between having a custom run of brass locos and just cutting for plastic injection.

[reinhardtjh]

The latest from GHB on the renegade L1s':

Dear Mr. Barsky, Thanks very much for your information about the Broadway
LTD.Yes, we won't accept the single or a few models for repair, even if
they would like to pay some expense. We can't concern just on this models
all time. As your producer, we would like to help you repair the models
whenever you need us, but it will make you in troubles if the buyers can't
cooperate you, like the Broadway LTD. Thus, what about give them a certain
time (maybe 30 days or 45 days.), and if they won't return them for repair
in time, you can forewarn them you have the right to refuse the returned
models.
Anyway, I will inform you once they mail to me about the models. Thanks.

Best regards,
Park
-------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. Park,
Some more information about the Broadway Limited purchase of the N scale
L-1 models from Hobbytyme.  The outlet for these models is called Factory
Direct trains.  The owner is a brother of the owner of Broadway Limited.
Thus, if you get any inquiries from Factory Direct Trains [FTD] you know it
came via Broadway Limited.  The owner of Broadway is Bob Gruber and his
brother who runs FTD is Joe Gruber.
I have also had several telephone calls and emails from hobbyists about the
dumping of these models by FTD.  They wanted to know if they purchased such
models could they send them to me or to you - the factory - for repairs.  I
said I will not accept them and all such models supposed to be returned to
the factory as a group shipment and not dumped into the marketplace.
I indicated that it would be doubtful the factory would accept them one at
a time as the factory is mainly equipped to organize work on many models at
the same time and not one at a time.  Again I stressed those models were
all to be shipped back to the factory together.  Thus, inquiries from
buyers of the dumped models should not be treated kindly.  I have
forewarned groups on Yahoo's N scale and PRR N scale modeling groups about
the additional problems being created by this dumping of the L-1 models.
However, it is up to you to repair singles or maybe a few pcs at a time at
the hobbyists expense.  But I strongly made the suggestion the factory
would not welcome that. 
I know who purchased directly from me.  They paid a premium price.  If any
of those come back they would be shipped to you from me for corrections.  I
know which engine numbers were sold to dealers or hobbyists who purchased
from me.
Best regards,
George Barsky
GHB International

So purchasers from FDT are totally on their own.  No chance of getting factory repairs.  Harsh, but understandable in my opinion.

[Philip H]

Which means FDT - in spite of the all sales final warnings on its web page - is setting itself up for some potential bad publicity in the N scale world.  Talk about a bad business decision . . . 

[eric220]

I think I'm over my temptation.

[Dave V]

I'm perfectly happy with my somewhat more crude-looking but amazingly dependable L1 GHQ/Kato hybrid.  She's on her 12th year of service with me and still tickin'.

I feel bad for GHQ here.  FDT, OTOH, not so much...  FDT ensures that any BLI overstock at the LHS will stay on the shelf indefinitely.

[bbussey]

I don't see a problem with how anyone has acted here.  I certainly understand GHB's frustration, on a number of levels.  But the product was sold to the distributor (Hobbytyme in this case) and they had a product that was unsaleable at the MSRP.  The solution, to recall what was sold and ship everything back for adjustment (on top of money they'd already spent), was not viable given the small margins that distributors earn.  So HobbyTyme obviously decided to cut its losses and dump the product for whatever they could recoup.  FDT was willing to take the gamble on selling the units to modelers willing to do the repair work themselves.  With the fire-sale models on the market, GHB (in addition to being angry) simply can't honor repair requests on those units without alienating the customers that bought the units at the original price.

[VonRyan]

I think it's poor sport for a manufacturer to not honor all of their products.

It shouldn't matter how it was sold (as long as it wasn't stolen) and as such in the even of serious issues like this the manufacturer should honor all of the models.

GHB should at least offer replacement wheelsets for folks who purchase the discounted models.

The way GHB is handling this is making me question whether or not I would want to purchase any possible future offerings.

[glakedylan]

if I understand all the information as it has been presented here
in emails
and on other forums

this is an "as is" sale at the noted price
as is, is as stated...as is
there is no expectation or guarantee on an as is purchase

yes, if the original manufacturer would provide parts needed
as to avoid needing to fix the problem with drivers or wheelsets
that would be good...but the expectation would be that such
would be offered at retail price

I got shipping confirmation today
should be here by week's end
I took a chance...to own brass...a PRR steamer!
hoping my skill level will be up to the challenge
or that parts will be made available
(which I would think, once purchased
the total $ spent may not be much of a discount)

I shall let everyone know and hopefully
have some photos to share.

sincerely--
Gary

[peteski]

What surprises me is that a brass model with so many defects and shortcomings (as indicated by the importer) made it through to the distributor and retail outlets.  I would have expected the importer to do some quality checks even before the models were shipped out of China and then again when the shipment arrived in U.S. (before being forwarded to the distributor).  That to me sounds like a huge f-up!  Hello?! Is there anybody checking on quality of their products?

Sounds like there are multiple items on that model which hang lower than the top of the track!  Another interesting thing is the selling price of these defective locos.  That gives a good clue as the how much markup exists on brass models like that, as I'm sure the retailer is not loosing their shirt on this sale.

What also gets me is that the importer was going to make good on these models, yet the retailer decided to just sell the defective merchandise.   This world is getting strange...