Hope for a P70?

[bbussey]

... I guess it's supposed to be obvious to me but I'm missing it, unless you're just saying that you and everyone else in N feels the same way.  If that's the case, I don't think it's ironic...maybe just a little myopic....

Myopic is a more apt assessment, I concur.

[Dave V]

And, FWIW, I have the opposite problem.  So much Pennsy is coming out so quickly that in the pre-order world I sometimes have to say no.  I've been in N scale for only 13 years and even so it wasn't like that just a few years ago.

If you're going to have a supply problem, I suggest it's much better to have too many choices than not enough.

Choosing a turn-of-the-century prototype road that was a victim of World War I (thanks, USRA... ) for my alter-ego has been very humbling.  Everything I do must be a compromise and must involve resin kits and custom decals.  Even finding proper hard-rock mine structures in N scale isn't easy.  Between the ME kit and the Campbell kit (I have both) that's about it.

So I am living the dichotomy of having an embarrassment of riches (and yet wanting still more!) on one side of the basement with a hardscrabble compromise (and little hope of more) on the other.

And yet both are fun for different reasons.

[chicken45]

Bitching about not having things is how we get more things.  Maybe that's why we have it so good.

BLI is doing a certain streamlined steam locomotive in HO, BTW. No N scale announcements today.  We just need to nag more manufacturers in a positive constructive way.

[mmagliaro]

When it comes to locomotives at least, I still think the PRR has been massively underrepresented
given its prevalence in the US railroad system and its popularity among modelers.

Curiously, as much "PRR" stuff as there has been in N Scale, when I modeled the PRR,
and being a steam modeler, I was always very frustrated by the fact that there were
zero steam locomotives.  The Trix K4 and B6 do not count.  They are long out of production,
and do not remotely keep up with current performance levels unless you do serious drivetrain
overhauls on them (like myself and many others have done).

Diesels?   There have been some F, RS and E units, but so have there been for many many other roads.

For motive power, I always thought that with the massive popularity of the PRR,
its representation in the market place would be huge, but it certainly hasn't been.
"PRR Steam" has meant slapping "Pennsylvania" on the side of other prototype engines.
(Like my ConCor Hudson, which I bought in "Pennsylvania".... but relettered to "New York Central")

I also think that the common practice of slapping "PRR" on any engine or piece of freight equipment
that comes out has made it appear that there are a lot more protoypically correct PRR pieces available
than there actually are.  The PRR's popularity may have been its undoing in the N Scale marketplace
in that regard.  "Slap PRR on everything because it sells."....  and as long as it sells, why make
an accurate K4.... or anything else for that matter?

The coming M1 is the first actual new PRR steam loco to appear on the market since the Trix K4 (in.. 1967?)

[OldEastRR]

Conversely, I'm happy just to have some models of New Haven prototypes available and more on the way, as there weren't any 25 years ago.

Well, not if you count strictly prototypical detail I guess, but the 5-axle C-liner came out in the late '60s. And didn't the NH have PAs? FA2s? S-2s? All of have been around for decades in N.

[bbussey]

Bitching about not having things is how we get more things.  Maybe that's why we have it so good.

BLI is doing a certain streamlined steam locomotive in HO, BTW. No N scale announcements today.  We just need to nag more manufacturers in a positive constructive way.

"Bitching" probably isn't the most productive method of achieving the desired results. Sometimes it comes across as being unappreciative of the models that are produced. Food for thought.

Regarding BLI and I assume your reference to the New Haven I-5 — Yes, they are on the third release of their HO model and posed to offer a handful of additional NH steamers as well. They should do well with all of them. I have an I-5 from the first release in a wall-mounted display case along with some other HO scale New Haven models. And it emphasizes my earlier point, that the "riches in HO" are not limited to PRR prototypes.

If a manufacturer produces an N model of a New Haven prototype, I'm grateful. But I see the illogic of lobbying for an esoteric model that has limited marketing appeal.

[bbussey]

Well, not if you count strictly prototypical detail I guess, but the 5-axle C-liner came out in the late '60s. And didn't the NH have PAs? FA2s? S-2s? All of have been around for decades in N.

True, the C-Liner, PA1 and FA1 were available in the 1970s, with the S-2 available in the late 1980s.  Never deco'd for New Haven, but available to custom paint and print. Most of the early Pennsy models were available in Pennsy deco. The only early N scale model deco'd for New Haven that was moderately accurate was the Kadee 40' boxcar in the script herald scheme.

[bbussey]

When it comes to locomotives at least, I still think the PRR has been massively underrepresented
given its prevalence in the US railroad system and its popularity among modelers...

How many prototypical New Haven locomotives have there been in N, juxtaposed with the number of prototypical Pennsylvania locomotives?  How many prototypical locomotives of the other eastern roads have there been, juxtaposed with those of the Pennsylvania?  "Lack of Pennsy power" is a very hard argument to make to a non-Pennsy modeler, especially when you throw in all of the N brass models that have been imported.

[John]

which version of the P70?

[chicken45]

which version of the P70?

Each manufacturer is doing two different versions. Early hot cars, ice air...can't remember.

"Bitching" probably isn't the most productive method of achieving the desired results. Sometimes it comes across as being unappreciative of the models that are produced. Food for thought.

Regarding BLI and I assume your reference to the New Haven I-5 — Yes, they are on the third release of their HO model and posed to offer a handful of additional NH steamers as well. They should do well with all of them. I have an I-5 from the first release in a wall-mounted display case along with some other HO scale New Haven models. And it emphasizes my earlier point, that the "riches in HO" are not limited to PRR prototypes.

Yes, I know. My comment was tongue in cheek, but the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Even at the PRR convention, the president stood up there and told us during the modeler's forum, let the manufacturers know we want. Do it in a polite manner. Never slam their products. Don't say dumb things that undermine the modeling committee's efforts. They referenced a story on how a manufacturer was doing an H class, and another was doing an L class. Some idiot wrote the L class manufacturer and said "doing and L class is stupid. Do an H class." So they dropped plans to do an L class and now there's two H classes and no L class.   
We should petition FVM to do more and vote with our wallets. They did the Hiawatha. They said from the landscape suggests we'd get more stuff in N from smaller "indie" manufacturers instead of Kato, Walthers, etc.

I'm not referring to the I-5.

[nkalanaga]

Since I'm NOT a Pennsy modeler, but notice that the K4 comes up quite regularly, a question:

How many other roads had locos with similar wheel spacings?  Never mind the type of pilot/trailing trucks, or boiler/cab shape, or tender, just the basic mechanism?  Would there be enough others that a K4 chassis could be repurposed for multiple models?

[basementcalling]

Tried earlier to post with attached images, but we filled up the server again I think.

IB official are happy to say that Inland Empire Paper is making significant progress on their new paper mill facility. Once online, the Idaho Belt should see significant increasing in paper traffic with 10-12 outbound loaded paper shipments a day. Obviously, that amount of paper going out will require significant amounts of wood chips, chemicals, acid, additives, and coal coming in to the plant. Business should boom.

Progress is ongoing. With the nice weather, spray bombs could be used outside safely, though some leakage under the masking tape complicated matters on the new recovery boiler. The background is a simple 8-10 print on regular paper just to test an image. Thinking I may be able to get away with several photos cropped and mounted on the backdrop rather than a long collage or mural take continuous print.



Lots more on my layout engineering thread.

[towl1996]

They referenced a story on how a manufacturer was doing an H class, and another was doing an L class. Some idiot wrote the L class manufacturer and said "doing and L class is stupid. Do an H class." So they dropped plans to do an L class and now there's two H classes and no L class.   

I'm not calling you out personally, but this makes no sense. There has to be more to this story. How can one letter make that big of a deal? (unless a fat check was included). And I thought there was an L1 being done, I know I've seen photos, George somebody...

As far as the P70 goes, it isn't high on my want list, but the truck possibilities are interesting. I have a fondness for the old Lima/Model Power version. These were the cars I first started to kitbash/detail. Plus its a lot easier to hack on a $10 car than a $35 car. I've got about 10 cars I've worked on over the years, so for sentimental reasons I'm not looking to replace these. Unless these "new" p70's can be bought at fire sale prices, I'm probably not in the market.

[chicken45]

I'm not calling you out personally, but this makes no sense. There has to be more to this story. How can one letter make that big of a deal? (unless a fat check was included). And I thought there was an L1 being done, I know I've seen photos, George somebody...

As far as the P70 goes, it isn't high on my want list, but the truck possibilities are interesting. I have a fondness for the old Lima/Model Power version. These were the cars I first started to kitbash/detail. Plus its a lot easier to hack on a $10 car than a $35 car. I've got about 10 cars I've worked on over the years, so for sentimental reasons I'm not looking to replace these. Unless these "new" p70's can be bought at fire sale prices, I'm probably not in the market.

No problem here! There is, I was just giving you the gist of it. I heard a brief summary of the situation and distilled that down even further. The point is that on several occasions, a faction of uninformed, critical consumers poisoned the well. And this was also HO scale, not N.
To bring a P70 up to speed is a lot of work. There's so much to do. Plate 4 end windows, new trucks, underbody details, doors, steps, couplers, new trucks if you model anything out of the 30's (and those trucks are tough to find). New arch roofs, chiseling out the diamonds on the clerestory ones, adding roof vents, diaphragms, repaint, decal, letter...
For me, I'd rather just buy one that's right and save myself the time, shipping for extra parts from 3 different suppliers, and a kick in the nuts.   

[Dave V]

Yes, but at the very least we do currently have a path to a modern P70.

There are other huge gaps in Pennsy availability, starting with anything steam.  I agree with Max...  The Minitrix stuff just barely counts and it needs so much work.

Now, if one models a road that used as-built USRA locos, then one is in much better shape.