New HCD layout, suggestions welcome

[Chris1274]

Hi everyone,

I'm getting ready to drop the dime on some track for a new HCD layout, but I'd like to get some feedback on the plan before I make the big commitment. Here's the plan I've been working on:



The overall theme is early 90's CSX (when you could still see lots of cats) with the main emphasis on coal hauling, so the setting will be somewhere in Appalachia. There's an obvious lack of staging, but rather than dedicate space on the layout to it, I'm planning on something temporary coming off the upper left corner, where there's the makings of a wye. Eventually that might become part of a more permanent expansion. I'm not 100% thrilled with the track plan (though I can't put my finger on why) so please feel free to critique it every which way. I'm definitely open to whatever suggestions you might have. Thanks in advance.

-Chris

[Philip H]

Chris,
I agree, something is off.  The team trek on the lower right seems out of place - there's no road, no hint of industry.  And frankly it doesn't look long enough for more then a car or two.  Your only two industries are a coal tipple and a cement plant - they add interest by requiring different types of cars, but the one doesn't feed the other, so absent the staging you mentioned there's no real interchange.  If you want to keep the tipple, I'd pull your wye tracks up off the left side, re-add the "passenger station" track off the right to staging, connect the cement plant track back to the main on the left side (so its not a facing point switch anymore), and turn the team track into either a partial warehouse of some kind, or an old fashioned coal dealer on its last legs.

But i model oil refineries down south, YMMV.

[lajmdlr]

Your layout could use a "scenic divide" down the middle lengthwise. Make it tall enough so you can't see the other side. You could trat it like a backdrop w/ painted scenes on it.  There's no road to the coal facility. Having the road from town going over the tunnel portals doesn't make much sense.. The coal loading area should be flat so the cars don't roll down hill.

[Chris1274]

Your layout could use a "scenic divide" down the middle lengthwise. Make it tall enough so you can't see the other side. You could trat it like a backdrop w/ painted scenes on it.  There's no road to the coal facility. Having the road from town going over the tunnel portals doesn't make much sense.. The coal loading area should be flat so the cars don't roll down hill.

The green section represents a high ridge that will separate the two sides of the layout. I haven't yet fully blocked in all the scenic details, but I was planning for a road to the coal tipple for truck access. Something along these lines:

I'll probably have to level off the grade to the tipple a little before that 3" mark to make sure the cars don't roll.

[Chris1274]

Chris,
I agree, something is off.  The team trek on the lower right seems out of place - there's no road, no hint of industry.  And frankly it doesn't look long enough for more then a car or two.  Your only two industries are a coal tipple and a cement plant - they add interest by requiring different types of cars, but the one doesn't feed the other, so absent the staging you mentioned there's no real interchange.  If you want to keep the tipple, I'd pull your wye tracks up off the left side, re-add the "passenger station" track off the right to staging, connect the cement plant track back to the main on the left side (so its not a facing point switch anymore), and turn the team track into either a partial warehouse of some kind, or an old fashioned coal dealer on its last legs.

But i model oil refineries down south, YMMV.

Well, I can't really model coal in a way that realistically feeds into any other industry, since I'm modelling the early 90's. The only options would be a power plant or port facility, which are just too humongous for a table top layout like this. What I was envisioning was that the coal tipple here would be one of several served on the branch line, which all generate some number of cars per day that are picked up and brought back to the (off-layout) yard, where they're arranged into unit trains and then sent to (off-layout) industries. The cement plant is just another industry to add a little variety. As for the team track, yeah, I haven't really come up with a good idea for that area, so I just threw that there as a place holder. I might even get rid of that spur altogether and just do something interesting scenery wise with that space. The passenger station isn't going to be functional. It was once a passenger station that's been converted into a restaurant. I don't have any passenger equipment to run, and it would probably look pretty bad on these tight curves anyway.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

As for the team track, yeah, I haven't really come up with a good idea for that area, so I just threw that there as a place holder. I might even get rid of that spur altogether and just do something interesting scenery wise with that space.

I'd argue to go even further. Get rid of the spur and do something boring with that space! Theres a lot of "boring" scenery out there in the real world, and replicating it is key to achieving realism.

[Cameron_Talley]

I'd argue to go even further. Get rid of the spur and do something boring with that space! Theres a lot of "boring" scenery out there in the real world, and replicating it is key to achieving realism.

Well, I guess it depends on what you're going for.  Boring might be prototypical, but is it fun to operate? 

[LIRR]

This can be interesting operationally with the long spur to the coal loader. But methinks you're trying to cram way too much in. The cement plant is out of place....between a "downtown" and company houses. I'd go with a smaller industry like a pulp wood loading yard, or a team track here. You have room for the road Phil noted is missing at the current location. The company houses might be out of place in the 90s...not sure, however that location is a nice clearing for something interesting. I like the church.

Are you sure about the grade? If the run-around track at the top isn't level it will make switching the coal loader difficult if not impossible without cars rolling away.

What's your space limitations? Will this be freestanding in the middle of a room, or up against a wall? That looks like a 36x80 door......

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Well, I guess it depends on what you're going for.  Boring might be prototypical, but is it fun to operate? 

Yes.

[Chris1274]

This can be interesting operationally with the long spur to the coal loader. But methinks you're trying to cram way too much in. The cement plant is out of place....between a "downtown" and company houses. I'd go with a smaller industry like a pulp wood loading yard, or a team track here. You have room for the road Phil noted is missing at the current location. The company houses might be out of place in the 90s...not sure, however that location is a nice clearing for something interesting. I like the church.

Are you sure about the grade? If the run-around track at the top isn't level it will make switching the coal loader difficult if not impossible without cars rolling away.

What's your space limitations? Will this be freestanding in the middle of a room, or up against a wall? That looks like a 36x80 door......

The left side will be up against the wall, with the two long sides free. Yes, it's 36x80.

I agree about the cement plant. The only reason it's there is because it's half-built and I desperately wanted to put it somewhere, but maybe I'll just have to wait for the layout to expand to find a better location for it. Now that you mention it, that's a much better location for the team track.

Yes, I'll have to level that grade off before the run-around begins, which means I'll probably have to make it a 4% grade to get the mine complex high enough above the ground level. I know that's considered a lot, but I won't be running long trains up that grade, only 6-7 hoppers and a caboose, with two diesels pulling (I just tested them on a 5% grade and they made it no problem).

[LIRR]

If the left side is against the wall, you can use the passenger station siding as an industry location by using a building flat on the wall. I would do whatever you could to add staging, maybe running this siding along the wall for a few feet....if you have 6" wide 4 feet long, that could give you 3 or 4 tracks for trains to come and go. They could come on layout as a turn, drop and pick up a few cars at your interchanges and then head back in...

..as for the coal loader grade...as long as the car spots are level you could make it work by pushing cars up the hill. Omit the crossover at the loader and just have 2 stub tracks (maybe squeeze in a third track to increase capacity) One track is always empty, the other track has loads ...push caboose first ( the 90s is post-caboose, but they were still used for long push moves likes this, some RRs called them 'shoving platforms' I believe ) up the hill, set the caboose on the end of the cut of loads, push the empties into the empty track, pull the caboose and set it on the end of the just spotted empties. Pull the loads, back up and get the caboose...now you're ready to head down the  hill. This is interesting swithing. Many a railroad did this to keep the locomotive on the downhill side of cars on a steep grade tor event runaways if a drawbar snapped. It also adds time which helps create the illusion of distance.

[Kentuckian]

I'd argue to go even further. Get rid of the spur and do something boring with that space! Theres a lot of "boring" scenery out there in the real world, and replicating it is key to achieving realism.

I agree.  I like what MR is doing with their HCD project in one corner.  Instead of another spur, they have a field of crops.  This has inspired a change on my own HCD layout.

[crrcoal]

Caboose are still used today on long shoves to some tipples. I thing that will add great interest to your ops. Looking forward to seeing your layout come to life.

[Chris1274]

Caboose are still used today on long shoves to some tipples. I thing that will add great interest to your ops. Looking forward to seeing your layout come to life.

I have the Pentrex video of CSX coal operations in WV around 1993, and cabooses were shown to be pretty commonly used on mine runs.

[DKS]

My humble suggestions... if ya gotta have the cement plant, put it on the siding where the company houses are. Move the houses to along the track where the cement plant used to be, and make that a team track (much more sensible to have one of those in town). Then put some nice scenery where the team track used to be. Otherwise, nice plan.