Missile Trains

[John]

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-looks-to-revive-nuclear-missile-trains-to-counter-u-s-attack-capability/511979.html

[wazzou]

Russia is out of control.

[pjm20]

[nkalanaga]

Don't laugh - we tried the same thing, as part of Reagan's "Star Wars" program, if I remember right.  The idea was to disguise the missile car as a boxcar.  Unfortunately, even without the Internet as we know it, railfans could easily tell the difference, and the primitive dial-up message boards kept track of their movements.  I remember a news article with one general complaining that the "train nuts" knew more about the location of the missiles than the Pentagon did.

I think people on both sides spent too much time playing with Lionel...

On the lighter side, I'm still amused by how much the Russian railway's rolling stock looks like the Milwaukee Road in the 30s and 40s.

Besides that, ours were put in regular freight trains, and the UP objected on safety grounds.  Jusy imagine a missile launch as the train went into a tunnel.  Missile pops up, smashes into portal, big wreck, missile explodes and burns, railroad closed for weeks.  We do more damage to our own railroad than the enemy does.

[C855B]

I sense this is publicity for domestic consumption, a shirtless-Putin-on-a-horse moment of awkward bravado.

The Russian approach to things may be clunky, clumsy and rife with anachronism, but you have to hand it to them that they know how to build reliable heavy launch platforms.

[John]

Don't laugh - we tried the same thing, as part of Reagan's "Star Wars" program, if I remember right.  The idea was to disguise the missile car as a boxcar.  Unfortunately, even without the Internet as we know it, railfans could easily tell the difference, and the primitive dial-up message boards kept track of their movements.  I remember a news article with one general complaining that the "train nuts" knew more about the location of the missiles than the Pentagon did.

It was called rail garrison ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peacekeeper_Rail_Garrison

[C855B]

They were actually going to be pink? Really?

[CBQ Fan]

You can see them at the U.S. Air Force museum in Dayton, OH.

[John]

They were actually going to be pink? Really?

years ago, they were boxcar read .. this has been sitting at WPAFB for a long time out in the elements .

[nkalanaga]

And the idea was that they would be "inconspicuous".  Can you imagine any semiexperienced railfan mistaking that for a standard boxcar?

I noticed that it also had truck (actually span bolster) mounted couplers. 

A newspaper columnist of the time said that they should hide the missiles in the New York subways, and shoot them through the manholes.  His reasoning was that the trains were never on time anyway, so even if the enemy knew where it was supposed to be at a given time, it wouldn't be there.

[delamaize]

And the idea was that they would be "inconspicuous".  Can you imagine any semiexperienced railfan mistaking that for a standard boxcar?

I noticed that it also had truck (actually span bolster) mounted couplers. 

A newspaper columnist of the time said that they should hide the missiles in the New York subways, and shoot them through the manholes.  His reasoning was that the trains were never on time anyway, so even if the enemy knew where it was supposed to be at a given time, it wouldn't be there.

[John]

considering that NYC has only slightly less Megatons aimed at it than DC, that wasn't a good idea

[aikorob]

considering that NYC has only slightly less Megatons aimed at it than DC, that wasn't a good idea

yes, but if either were targeted......................wouldn't that be considered a public service-----rather than act of war? 

[eric220]

yes, but if either were targeted......................wouldn't that be considered a public service-----rather than act of war? 

No

[nkalanaga]

John:  Not really a problem.  First, if NYC was targeted, launch the counterstrike before the warheads arrive. 

Second, most nukes are designed for airbursts, and wouldn't seriously damage the subways.  There would almost certainly be a few manholes clear to shoot through. 

Lastly, I assume he was joking, because one COULDN"T launch a missile from a subway.  There's no room to stand it up!

As for targeting DC, there is a story told about a Soviet general and his analysis of our respective armed forces.  He was said to have said that Soviet troops were the best trained and disciplined in the world.  They always did exactly what they were told.  On the other hand, American forces were poorly trained and had no discipline.  Rather insulting, wasn't he?

Then he said that was why Americans win wars, and why he didn't want to fight us.  His conclusion was that, if you shoot the Soviet commander, the soldiers will simply sit there waiting for another order that will never come.  On the other hand, if you shoot the American commander, the soldiers will keep fighting, because there's no one to tell them to STOP shooting.

If they destroyed Washington, they'd have to fight the entire US, not just the military, and while they might destroy it, they couldn't hope to conquer it, other than as a wasteland.  Therefore, his opinion, as a high ranking officer, was that any Soviet leader who ordered a first strike on the US would have been killed by his own generals, because attacking us would have been suicide.  The Soviet military wasn't insane, whatever the politicians may have acted like.