Author Topic: Just when you thought you knew what you were looking at - Box Car Modeling  (Read 1275 times)

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wcfn100

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Even when you think you've done research on a car, sometimes you still get surprised.

I've been looking at what it would take to do this car:



It's just a neat car and with so many PS-1 doners to pick from, plus Kadee makes the underframe in HO to copy from and EXR make an overhanging PS roof, I thought It would be something fun.  So the Athearn 50' car has a flush door that's close.  I can use the MTL door hardware to get closer.  But something just wasn't making sense when I was looking at it - mostly how far right the door stops were compared to the Athearn model plus the side panels were wierd.  Finally I noticed the roof.  There are 15 panels on a 50' PS roof, so the door 'should' line up with one of the bow-ties, but it doesn't.  After counting a couple more times, it got through my thick head that the door isn't on center.  :o  For over 20 years, I never noticed.  Of course now it's easy to see.

If I thought I had a Wheelhouse it would have been CGW PS-1 box cars.  :oops:

Of course, now I have to build it.  8)


Jason

nkalanaga

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Re: Just when you thought you knew what you were looking at - Box Car Modeling
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2014, 01:10:06 AM »
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It looks like the car's been renumbered, by painting out one digit.  I wonder if it was a double-door car, with centered doors, and they removed the left door, possibly adding a wider single door?  Or they lengthened a 40 ft car by splicing a new end on it, rather than lengthening both ends.

What it actually looks like is a car built with a narrower door, and when they widened the door, they didn't want to repaint the slogan, so all of the cutting was on the right side.

The first time I saw one of the C&O/B&O Canstock cars I was sure there was something wrong with it, but at least it looked like they intended the door to be off center.  This looks like a mistake.  I wonder what the other side looks like?
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wcfn100

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Re: Just when you thought you knew what you were looking at - Box Car Modeling
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2014, 02:16:00 AM »
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This was a series of 8 cars built new by PS in 1962.  This is how they were built.

This may be one of those things that's a lot more common than expected.  Moloco makes their 50' RBL in a center and off-set door version and I didn't pay much attention to it.  I guess I assumed the door was off center by something really noticeable.  But looking at it, they're just like the car above.

He had a bunch of road names, but all that's left are EL and RI.

Here's a RI car (different car from the Moloco car).



Offset door.  :-X  I can find EL cars that are the same way.

Great, something new to check on all my 50' RBL cars.

Jason

wcfn100

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Re: Just when you thought you knew what you were looking at - Box Car Modeling
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2014, 02:22:43 AM »
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Here's Moloco's Milwaukee car with the off-set door.




Jason

wcfn100

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Re: Just when you thought you knew what you were looking at - Box Car Modeling
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2014, 02:29:40 AM »
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Here's a proto Wabash car with the off-set door.



Jason

sirenwerks

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Re: Just when you thought you knew what you were looking at - Box Car Modeling
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2014, 10:35:03 AM »
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Here's Moloco's Milwaukee car with the off-set door.



I so want this in N scale.
Now seeking Pacific NW N scalers to create a Modutrak-style modular club featuring NP's shared mainline between Seattle and Portland. PM me if interested.

wcfn100

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Re: Just when you thought you knew what you were looking at - Box Car Modeling
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2014, 01:47:12 PM »
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NYC Dispatch Car shops.



So there has to be a reason this is so prevalent.  I'll have to see if someone on one of the Yahoo lists knows what it could be.

Jason

sirenwerks

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Re: Just when you thought you knew what you were looking at - Box Car Modeling
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2014, 07:24:25 PM »
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Of course, there's always the B&O can stock boxes, though not plug door design.
Now seeking Pacific NW N scalers to create a Modutrak-style modular club featuring NP's shared mainline between Seattle and Portland. PM me if interested.

nkalanaga

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Re: Just when you thought you knew what you were looking at - Box Car Modeling
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2014, 12:12:31 AM »
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Since all of the pictures seem to be offset to the right, I assume both sides are the same, rather than the doors being across from each other.  That's weird. 

The Canstock cars I can understand, it makes loading with a forklift more efficient.  But these don't seem to be enough off-center to make a difference, unless maybe they're designed to get an even number of standardized pallets, boxes, or whatever on the long side.  Maybe the center door required leaving an empty space, or partially blocking the door.  I wonder if all of these cars are offset by the same amount?

Here's another NYC car that's even more extreme.  It looks like one of the Canstock cars, and is offset to the left.
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=nyc48415&o=nyc


Think we can get Bryan at ESM to do that first NYC car?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 12:18:13 AM by nkalanaga »
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cv_acr

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Re: Just when you thought you knew what you were looking at - Box Car Modeling
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2014, 11:20:21 AM »
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Since all of the pictures seem to be offset to the right, I assume both sides are the same, rather than the doors being across from each other.  That's weird. 

The Canstock cars I can understand, it makes loading with a forklift more efficient.  But these don't seem to be enough off-center to make a difference, unless maybe they're designed to get an even number of standardized pallets, boxes, or whatever on the long side.  Maybe the center door required leaving an empty space, or partially blocking the door.  I wonder if all of these cars are offset by the same amount?

Or maybe lines the left hand side of the door up in the same place for doors of different sizes, for customer loading docks with fixed spacing?

(Wild-a$$ guess)

nkalanaga

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Re: Just when you thought you knew what you were looking at - Box Car Modeling
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2014, 02:09:19 AM »
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Chris:  That was sort of my thought when I saw the Canstock cars years ago.  "Someone has a warehouse set up for 40 ft boxcars, so they offset the door to fit the loading dock." 

That wasn't the case, but dock spacing very well could be the reason for some of these.
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wcfn100

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Re: Just when you thought you knew what you were looking at - Box Car Modeling
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2014, 05:18:02 PM »
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So after letting it knock around on the MFCL Yahoo group, I got a lot of good information.  One post in particular by Mike Shylanski I think sums up
the situation.

Quote
B&O literature confirms some of what has been said on this thread about the advantages of using offset doors and side fillers.
A B&O document done up for shippers in the 1960s explained that, if standard pallets (40" by 48") were being used in cars with side fillers, extra pallets could be loaded in 50' cars with staggered doors. Now side fillers were 40" wide to match the pallet width. Also, side fillers could be extended to several positions with most able to create a minimum interior width of 8'4"--the width of two pallets. The document added that, on then newer B&O box cars (circa 1968) "the side fillers nearest the doors will move laterally along the length of the car about 18 inches to correct irregular pallet patterns or package overhang."
According to the document, there were three categories of 50' cars with side fillers on the B&O.
1) You could load 20 standard pallets in a typical 50' box car with centered 10'6" door openings. Five side fillers could be used per wall (four "walls" per car, two on each side of the door opening.)
2) You could load 24 standard pallets in a car with side fillers and 10'6" door openings if the doors were each offset 23" from center. Six side fillers could be used per wall. The B&O called such cars "GMA cars," which I believe stood for Grocery Manufacturers' Association.
3) Finally, the B&O had some cars, 4650 cu. ft. leased FGEX cars I believe, that had 12'2" doors that were offset 5'4" so that the door openings did not overlap at all. These staggered-door cars could hold 28 standard pallets because the entire interior of the car could be loaded, unlike the situation with GMA and standard cars. Seven side fillers could be used per wall and virtually the entire car was filled. Interesting.

Thanks Michael!

And if you don't know what side fillers are, they are on the inside walls of the car and extend towards the center to secure the load.

Jason

nkalanaga

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Re: Just when you thought you knew what you were looking at - Box Car Modeling
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2014, 02:07:45 AM »
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Interesting.  And I assume these "side fillers" are another of the "loading device" codes being discussed in https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=34100.0?
N Kalanaga
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