Author Topic: Would there be a demand for Heavyweight Solarium coaches from MTL  (Read 5604 times)

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Paradise275

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Re: Would there be a demand for Heavyweight Solarium coaches from MTL
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2014, 04:39:15 PM »
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I guess the best one to model would be the Pullman one. It could be painted for whatever road you like.
A representation of the prototype. No-one remembers them anyway. With apologies to rivet counters. It would be a great alternative to the open porch seen everywhere in heavyweight coaches and it could be run in the consist as well so you could still use the observation car if you wanted.

Rick

jmlaboda

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Re: Would there be a demand for Heavyweight Solarium coaches from MTL
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2014, 05:38:00 PM »
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Quote
Burlington had the Happy Hollow and the Lancaster Club.

They were not your typical solarium observation, having a vestibule on that end of the car...

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=242947

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It would be a great alternative to the open porch seen everywhere in heavyweight coaches and it could be run in the consist as well so you could still use the observation car if you wanted.

A number of open-platform observation cars were rebuilt with solarium ends, sometimes with the higher "Sunroom" windows, like on the Walthers observation, while others had the standard height windows in the observation room area, which were the more common type.  Some cars with the open-platform were withdrawn from service where solarium cars replaced them, quite often not seeing much use after they were replaced, largely because of the popularity of the solarium observation cars.

At least two 8 Section - lounge solarium observation cars became business cars for the Nickel Plate Road, Pullman Carleton Club and Kitchi Gammi Club, becoming NKP 6 and 7.  Several of the Canadian Pacific cars like Geoff Gooderham model that was shown in Puddy's post also were used as business cars on the CP with little change to the interiors.  CP Cape Ray became business car #4, Cape George became #6, Cape Race became #13, Cape Hurd became #14, CapeThames became #15, Cape Knox became #21, Cape Churchill became #36 and Cape Mudge became #37 between 1962 and 1966, replacing older business cars, some with the same numbers.

The biggest problem really would be determining what Plan or Plans would be good to produce and then go from there...

nickelplate759

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Re: Would there be a demand for Heavyweight Solarium coaches from MTL
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2014, 09:25:19 PM »
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Kitchi Gammi Club still exists - although sadly has lost its tall windows (and some other windows changed over the years as well).

George
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Paradise275

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Re: Would there be a demand for Heavyweight Solarium coaches from MTL
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2014, 08:51:08 AM »
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So the question was and is, do you think there would be a demand for a generic or close enough solarium coach?

Rick

jmlaboda

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Re: Would there be a demand for Heavyweight Solarium coaches from MTL
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2014, 11:27:34 AM »
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Kitchi Gammi Club still exists - although sadly has lost its tall windows (and some other windows changed over the years as well).

Can loose something the car never had.  As mentioned above the more common solarium observation cars did not have the tall windows.

Would they sell?  I would say yes, though choosing the right car to market is a key part of how that would do.  My lines are freelanced so having one acquire a car for company service is within reason.  Others who are looking for a more beautiful end to their heavyweight passenger trains will hopefully buy more.

Paradise275

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Re: Would there be a demand for Heavyweight Solarium coaches from MTL
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2014, 11:53:55 AM »
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This is the one Con-Cor brought out for their HO Brachline series
http://www.con-cor.com/Heavyweight-BCS-Page4.html
The Pullman one has high windows. I would think most people would like a good looking car for the end unit. Not something that just looks like a regular coach except for the inside.

Rick

gelboy45

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Re: Would there be a demand for Heavyweight Solarium coaches from MTL
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2014, 02:18:24 PM »
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Oh yes please let us have solarium cars. What a sensible suggestion, especially if CB&Q!

Oh, and following the single window coach, a baggage/coach combine for all those branch lines..........

Gerry

dougnelson

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Re: Would there be a demand for Heavyweight Solarium coaches from MTL
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2014, 11:20:22 PM »
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Yes please!  These were typically Pullman operated cars so they were generally solarium-lounge-buffet cars, not coaches.  Some had Pullman drawing rooms and a compartment also.

The open platform heavyweight MTL observation is a nice addition, but the reality is that these cars largely disappeared during the depression.  They were often replaced with with the solarium-lounge-buffet cars which lasted through the 1950s.  So if you model the post-WWII era, the solarium cars are more appropriate.  The solarium cars had a smaller lounge area, buffet to serve drinks and light food service, and some revenue space in the sleeping accommodations.

I gave Joe at MTL a detailed article with drawings of these cars and I hope these will be a future MTL heavyweight.

Here is one on the PRR east of Horseshoe Curve in 1951.  The marker lights are a nice touch.


thomasjmdavis

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Re: Would there be a demand for Heavyweight Solarium coaches from MTL
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2014, 07:38:14 AM »
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I don't mean to nitpick with the original post, but I suspect the true answer to "is there demand for a 'solarium coach'" is "no."  Because very few solariums would have been coaches.  Now, would their be demand for a solarium lounge-obs, or a solarium sleeper-lounge-obs, or a solarium-parlor-lounge-obs, there the answer might well be "yes." The 3975 would be a good choice, although given that (seems unusual for Pullman) each variant (a quick look brought up A,B, C, D, K and T- and I don't think in this case "T" means either troop or tourist, so not sure how that one popped up), I wonder how much similarity there is in terms of window arrangement between them. I think quite a few ended up (modified, no doubt) as business cars, track inspection cars, etc.  And as was obvious from the previously posted list, any of us who needs an excuse to run one can put it on the end of a circus train.
I would no doubt be good for at least one. Depending upon the specific window arrangement, quite probably more, as I like to cut and paste.  BUT, all that said, if it gets put in front of the single window coach, I might just not buy it out of spite.
Tom D.

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John

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Re: Would there be a demand for Heavyweight Solarium coaches from MTL
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2014, 07:54:58 AM »
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I certainly would like to see more Pullman heavyweights ..   as well as Streamliners, ACF cars, etc .. also modern commuter cars

Paradise275

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Re: Would there be a demand for Heavyweight Solarium coaches from MTL
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2014, 09:01:26 AM »
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thomasjmdavis
I'm sorry I used the generic term "coach" in asking about the solarium car. You're right. They were used for a number of things and more as an observation lounge buffet car. My thinking was not the usage but the look at the end of a train. I'm not a rivet counter but there are so many models out there using the porch/veranda (whatever the correct term) as the end unit for a heavyweight passenger train I thought these would be more appropriate for trains in the 40's and 50's.
Sorry for my misuse of the tern.

Rick

Kisatchie

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Re: Would there be a demand for Heavyweight Solarium coaches from MTL
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2014, 10:22:45 AM »
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thomasjmdavis
I'm sorry I used the generic term "coach" in asking about the solarium car....
Sorry for my misuse of the tern.


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Nato

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Re: Would there be a demand for Heavyweight Solarium Observation Car from MTL
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2014, 02:12:54 AM »
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           :| Yes as noted (Durban's book) many roads had solarium observation cars, most,but not all also had sleeping acomodations as well as the main lounge, and a rear Sun Room usually seperated from the lounge. Pullman built many of these cars to a standard plan,but as Pud (Mike's) nice model shows some roads like Canadian Pacific built their own often rebuilding other cars. They ran not only in cold climates, but down South as well, this car design basically replaced open platform cars on alot of trains and has been mentioned were sometimes run mid train. Now to answer the question, yes I would buy a model of a Solarium Observation Car in a heart beat if MT or another manufacturer offered the most common Pullman design car. Nate Goodman (Nato).

jmlaboda

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Re: Would there be a demand for Heavyweight Solarium coaches from MTL
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2014, 03:44:14 PM »
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A great example of what might be done, though tbey were not very numerous.  This car, an early Plan 3975 3 Compartment - 1 Drawing Room - buffet solarium lounge observation (in "PRR Red" paint no less) and later Plan 3975 3 Compartment 2 Drawing Room - buffet solarium lounge observation cars (like the two below) would be an ideal model, though the solarium cars with 8- and 10-Sections were the more common designs.  Strates Shows bought two of these beauties, Palm Lane (shown below) and Sunshine...

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=220731
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/emg_taconite_trail0.jpg

nickelplate759

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Re: Would there be a demand for Heavyweight Solarium coaches from MTL
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2014, 11:21:01 AM »
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Actually, Kitchi Gammi Club did have tall windows on the end (they are now "normal"), but not, as Jerry pointed out, on the sides.
Either way, I'd love a solarium car, but not very many.
George
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I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.