Author Topic: Body mounting on MTL metal frames  (Read 1891 times)

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lock4244

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Body mounting on MTL metal frames
« on: September 23, 2014, 01:06:13 PM »
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Was wondering what the consensus is for body mounting on MTL boxcars with metal frames... specifically whether or not one needs to tap the pre-existing mounting hole on the frame? Can the MTL tapping tool thread the frame without being ruined? Would rather not ruin a tap if I can avoid it. TIA.
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wcfn100

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Re: Body mounting on MTL metal frames
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2014, 01:15:25 PM »
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That's what taps are for.  :?

The MTL metal frames are pretty soft.  Just use some oil and back out to clear the debris a few times and there shouldn't be a problem.  And FWIW, a broken tap works just as well as long as there's enough thread.  I use my broken tap more than my good one.


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Re: Body mounting on MTL metal frames
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2014, 01:16:40 PM »
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The holes in the metal underframes need to be tapped. The Micro-Trains tap and drill set works well. Just be sure not to turn the tap too far into the underframe hole at one time. A couple or three turns at a time depending on resistance felt, then backing the tap out to remove metal flakes from the hole, always works for me.


Hmm... I always use a
1/4" drill...


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lock4244

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Re: Body mounting on MTL metal frames
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2014, 02:06:44 PM »
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So pretty much the same as the Rigid threader here at work... gentle and lots of lube, pull it out often to keep it clean. Got it. Thanks guys.

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Philip H

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Re: Body mounting on MTL metal frames
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2014, 03:15:56 PM »
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So pretty much the same as XXXXXXXXXX.. gentle and lots of lube, pull it out often to keep it clean. Got it. Thanks guys.

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up1950s

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Re: Body mounting on MTL metal frames
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2014, 03:53:47 PM »
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I drill a hole between the 2 half drilled holes , tap , then mount 1015s in 2004 snap boxes . What a PIA and expensive .

MTL used to sell me by phone the 2004 boxes at a cheaper than complete coupler cost . My last batch cost the same as near a hole dang 2004 . When bought in volume of 100 or 200 this stinks . Lately I haven't converted rolling stock do to cost , unless it is a project car or loco I am working on .

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Re: Body mounting on MTL metal frames
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2014, 04:54:19 PM »
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When I did body mounting, I just screwed on coupler boxes without tapping.  My guess is that the metal underframe is softer than the screws I used.

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Re: Body mounting on MTL metal frames
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2014, 05:54:26 PM »
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I'm the king of broken taps because I continue to do it incorrectly...plenty of oil...subtle, small turns, then back out...the metal frames DO NEED to be tapped for body mounting.
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Re: Body mounting on MTL metal frames
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2014, 06:14:45 PM »
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When I body mounted (um, underframe mounted  :) )  couplers on bunch of older Atlas boxcars (with plastic frames) I made a jig to properly locate the hole, drilled #61 hole then tapped it (yes even in plastic -  I'm just that way).  :D

But even before I drilled the hole I first flued a styrene (0.020" I think) spacer. That is because I used 1023/1025 couplers, because they have a much smaller (and more prototypical looking) coupler box.
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John

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Re: Body mounting on MTL metal frames
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2014, 06:56:20 PM »
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When I did body mounting, I just screwed on coupler boxes without tapping.  My guess is that the metal underframe is softer than the screws I used.

Add a little CA to the screw on the top, and you are done ..

bbussey

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Re: Body mounting on MTL metal frames
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2014, 11:07:21 PM »
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I drill a hole between the 2 half drilled holes , tap , then mount 1015s in 2004 snap boxes . What a PIA and expensive .

MTL used to sell me by phone the 2004 boxes at a cheaper than complete coupler cost . My last batch cost the same as near a hole dang 2004 . When bought in volume of 100 or 200 this stinks . Lately I haven't converted rolling stock do to cost , unless it is a project car or loco I am working on .

Richie,

Use the inner holes and #1016 couplers/boxes and flat head screws. That puts the end of the coupler box even with the end of the car, unlike #1015 couplers that extend outward when used in the front holes (which were designed for #1023/25 and 1027).
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nkalanaga

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Re: Body mounting on MTL metal frames
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2014, 01:57:43 AM »
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If you have older underframes, especially the 40 and 50 ft boxcars, you may find a few where the hole is too big to tap.  Apparently the tooling was worn at some time.  In that case, you can use a 00-90 bolt and put a nut on top.  I had to do that with several of mine.
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up1950s

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Re: Body mounting on MTL metal frames
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2014, 09:57:50 AM »
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Richie,

Use the inner holes and #1016 couplers/boxes and flat head screws. That puts the end of the coupler box even with the end of the car, unlike #1015 couplers that extend outward when used in the front holes (which were designed for #1023/25 and 1027).

Hmmm , sounds like I will have to look into that , thanks . I already use 3/16 brass FH screws as the snap boxes have just enough meat to counter sink . I use a #62 drill , and never use oil , and rarely snap a tap and utter crap . That's a rap !

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Re: Body mounting on MTL metal frames
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2014, 01:46:29 AM »
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Bryan:  The outer holes don't really work for the 1023/25 couplers either.  They were designed specifically for the 1027 and nothing else.  I used them on my 100+ conversions, but the 1025s stick out too far.

Both the 1015 and 1025 are designed for a mounting hole 0.125 inches from the end, and the vertical height is only 0.004 inches different, so I consider the two interchangeable.  There is room to drill a new hole between the two existing ones if desired.  I did that on my MT tank cars, and if the plastic doesn't break while drilling and tapping the metal boxcar frames shouldn't.

If MT ever has to rework the tooling for the boxcar underframes it would be very easy for them to lower the cars and move the mounting holes.  Then, regardless of the other issues with the bodies, they would at least ride at the right height and have body mounted couplers.  That right there would be a big visual improvement.
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bbussey

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Re: Body mounting on MTL metal frames
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2014, 02:48:15 AM »
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I used to do what Richie does and drill a new hole in between the two existing holes.  Now, I just use #1016 in the inner holes, as the front of the 1016 is flush with the ends of the body.  I've done this with reefers and boxcars, so I assume it works with the other body styles.

I think the more appropriate statement is that the #1027 was designed to fit the existing holes in the floor.  The coupler pad design on the floors has been unchanged since 1972.  And in the early years, Kadee sold replacement floors with #1023 couplers mounted to refit the rolling stock of other manufacturers.
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