Intermountain SD40-2 !!11!

[6axlepwr]

I will concede that my language was a bit strong in the beginning. That is my personality. I am passionate about modeling. Especially good quality models. I will go to the ends of the earth for a company that puts out top shelf models and I will pay the asking price for them. I will promote them wherever and whenever I can. I will not give IM kudos on ANY locomotive they have produce yet. OK, a little on the F units. Still like the Kato F's better. SD's though forget it. IM has a LONG row to hoe before I will give them any credit for an SD or GP. Although they have not offered a GP. I will not give in on the tunnel motors or SD45-2 though. Those were important models that they completely botched in every aspect of quality. It may look like a tunnel motor from 4' away, but up close it is junk, crap, hideous or whatever you want to call it. And that of course IS my opinion. I do not think we will ever see them by another manufacturer either and I doubt IM will go back and improve them.

As I am jumping on the bandwagon of pessimism that IM can pull it off, you are on the other side approaching it with optimism. I respect that and again I will say that I hope they prove me wrong this time. 

[sirenwerks]

I've no dog in this fight but agree, IMRC should be held accountable for the quality of its models.  Its recent decision to start gluing box car doors shut means I need to find a new manufacturer until the policy reverts.

[Scottl]

Fair enough, it is good to have discussion.

[Puddington]

I will not give IM kudos on ANY locomotive they have produce yet. OK, a little on the F units. Still like the Kato F's better.

Ok; I can't stay quiet any longer.... I can not agree with your statement on F units. The Kato units are fine; albeit not improved in the last "who knows how many years"... fine; they are still good. The IM FP9's are outstanding in everyway; they run wonderfully; have an excellent lower end performance, they look good; the details are well executed - stand alone grabs, winterization hatches where applicable, excellent truck side frame detail and so on.... It is not fair to "bash" IM for the F unit; indeed, they should be given significant credit and be lauded if you are truly objective.

If every company was judged only on it's worst model you'd be playing with Lego trains, not N scale..... Everyone has had a dud.... everyone can recover; learn and improve, even if some will refuse to believe this.....  can we not let IM bring their model out before it torn apart in the name of "open discussion".... 

[Robbman]

I agree with some of your opinions but not all.  I have owned a tunnel motor for almost ten years and it is a good product that tried to push the envelope and did not quite get there in terms of execution. IM made substantial advancements on prototype specific details, adding etched details, and made them available for a price that was not radically higher than the generic competition.

  About $20 higher MSRP (which was 20% more than a Kato at the time)... and what we got was a cheaply (and I mean that in that IM did the tooling to cost as little as possible) tooled model with extra detail parts and incorrect or no details (like visible fans OVER the radiator core on the tunnel motor... the beads on the blower duct in totally the wrong place (or just non-existent on the SD45-2 (correct for the SD40-2W though))... and my aforementioned exhaust hatch being in the wrong spot... which is STILL not fixed on any HO or N scale model released since..).. and we got an EL SD45-2 and a CN SD40-2W that have no low-profile roof components (dustbin hatch, exhaust hatch, T-vent, fans)... with generic horns etc.

  The great thing about hood EMDs is that you might not be able to compare exact models... but you can compare exact features across multiple models.  For example, the class lights on an IM model are blobs... compared to the correct tooling on an Atlas or Kato.  The tooling of the sub bases (the compartments with doors that are under the cab... house the batteries and air brake equipment)can also be compared... say between a Trainman GP15-1 and any IM.  On the SD45-2, the tooling of the radiator grills can compared to the Atlas single panel GP38-2 (SD45-2 used two of the same grills)... Atlas' have the submesh.  I'm not real fond of the way the doors are tooled either... yes it's cheaper and 'more correct' to outline them, but raising them off the hood side slightly is time proven to simply look better in N

  I have no real beef with IM (they're not wanting to correct the exhaust hatch notwithstanding)... I've always recommend waiting and buying their -2 models at a substantial discount, because the value in the tooling simply isn't worth the MSRP, as opposed to not buying them altogether, as they are the only game in town for the 45-2 and T-2s.  I did like the Fs... their best model to date, period 

  As for this SD40-2... I'm not holding my breath, most of the tooling for it already exists, and given IM business philosophy, I don't see it being improved or corrected.  So it will most likely be another hold off till you can get it at a substantial discount model.

Just my opinions, take them with salt and 2¢, etc, etc...

[soo]

You guys are just depressing. But as I have said in the past,, This run,, there is nothing that I need. So I will wait till ya'll skewer them with pitchforks,, melt the shell and frame over a open pit of liquid magma.

    When they do come out with the road names that I need,, I will buy one,, put it through the crucible of n scale modeling, and see what comes out in the wash.

  Adios,,, ( optimistic) Wyatt

[James Costello]

The Kato can be found for less, because it is a rerun of a 15 year old design. It's not a bad design, but be real here. It's 15 years old, has seen no significant changes

I assume you mean apart from the snoot nose and mid-production variants?

[oakcreekco]

You guys are just depressing. But as I have said in the past,, This run,, there is nothing that I need. So I will wait till ya'll skewer them with pitchforks,, melt the shell and frame over a open pit of liquid magma.

    When they do come out with the road names that I need,, I will buy one,, put it through the crucible of n scale modeling, and see what comes out in the wash.

  Adios,,, ( optimistic) Wyatt

I'll tell you what's depressing. Spending just shy of $1k for the first release of Tunnel Motors, believing the advertised claims, and then ending up with endless problems and issues. They sure weren't designed for "continuous running".

I spent more time trouble shooting and trying to fix issues on 6 Tunnel Motors, than all of my previous time spent on all engines, my entire hobby life. Documented and discussed all problems with the factory.

A few releases later, I pre ordered more, based on the "promised" improvements. My dealer agreed that if I wasn't happy with this release, bring them back for a full cash refund.

Depressing...........................when the new release arrived.........................they didn't even make it out of the hobby shop. SOS

So, for an die hard DRGW fanatic in N scale, that gave them a chance to "resolve" issues, I ended up with test turds. Parted them out, sold parts on the Bay, and as I've said earlier, any manufacturer EARNS their reputation.

This whole scenario was depressing, and until I see IM prove differently, I'll stick with the "just say no" attitude for future locomotive buys. Pretty sad for a guy who WANTED to spend money, and buy 15-20 Tunnel Motors.

Spending that kind of money, and not getting the quality that was hyped, is depressing, and sticks in ones mind too.

So if it appears that some of us are negative, or depressing, just get YOUR cash out, and throw it away on sub par for the day loco's that were touted as "revolutionary" .

[soo]

I don't have a grand to drop on anything. Tired of the whining, complaining and the comment that they never will get it right.

 Out.

[kalbert]

Ford!
NO! Chevy!

My dad can beat up your dad!

Don't buy one if you don't want one, and make sure you drag on and on and on about it. If you can get enough people to not buy them maybe Intermountain won't insult us with their trash and cancel the project so we can all get nothing and like it.

Then we can go back to pissing down Kato's back for never rerunning them, or Athearn and Walthers for ignoring us all together.

[6axlepwr]

It is not fair to "bash" IM for the F unit; indeed, they should be given significant credit and be lauded if you are truly objective.

This I apologize for. Not bashing the F unit or FP unit. I just happen to like the Kato one better. The running quality and the stance. You do have to lower the IM F's to get them to look proper. The FT and F units are not in the same discussion as the SD's. I will leave them out. This discussion is solely about the SD's. Three pinnacle SD's that deserved better. Three SD's that really needed to be done to the highest quality as the SD40-2 deserves.

If every company was judged only on it's worst model you'd be playing with Lego trains, not N scale..... Everyone has had a dud.... everyone can recover; learn and improve, even if some will refuse to believe this.....  can we not let IM bring their model out before it torn apart in the name of "open discussion".... 

This is flat out wrong. We should be talking about it. We should be making our voices heard, voicing our opinions and observations so that maybe the manufacturers will take note and bedfor ethey put out another dog, they may make some changes or corrections that turn it into a real winner. It is our $$$$$ they are wanting. If they want more of it, then listen to us. I'll easily throw $1000 at tehm if they listen and produce. They can tell me to shut my mouth by presenting a golden egg. Otherwise I will not.

Those of you that can't stand me and what I am expressing here. Have any of you paid any attention to what has happend to the HO community. It is this very type of discussion that has motivate the manufacturers, especially Athearn to step outside the box and take that state of the art leap. Do they have issues? yes. But their issues are not DESIGN and STATE OF THE ART tooling or rather using todays technology to push the limits of fidelity. Have you even seen what a multi axis milling machine can do? It is unfathomable what detail you can get in N-Scale with one. I have, I have seen it on something I was trying to produce. Their issues are in quality control assembly. Step outside the N-Scale world for a moment and look at the leaps HO has made. Look at the latest Exactrail quad hopper. That model to date is the highest quality model ever produced ready to run. Down to the striker plates. You can't tell me that or close to that cannot be produced in N-Scale. So the discussion I am pushing is for us to demand better. Ask for it. Tell the manufacturers before and while they are in the planning stages. Maybe, just maybe they will start to listen and give the N-Scale community the respect as it gives the HO community.

And I will keep saying this until IM shuts me up. IM should make this SD40-2 the best model ever seen in N. They should tool all new side frames, fuelt tank, hand rails, everything. Give attention to EVERY aspect of the model. I do not have high hopes for that though and I will voice that until the cows come home or until IM proves me wrong. It needs to run as smooth or smoother than a Kato and it has to have tooling as good or better than Atlas. Then I will shut up.

[Dave V]

I remember years ago making an Xtranormal vid saying:

"Buying a choo-choo and taking it out of the box isn't modeling.  But buying a choo-choo and b!tching about it for 40 pages is!"

This was a nod to the infamous Walthers 0-8-0 thread on A-board.

I will have to amend that to say that "Reading a product announcement about a choo-choo and then b!tching about it is!"

So, I see it as this:

- IM will make the SD40-2, whose flaws we won't know in full until someone actually has one.
- Some people won't buy it because either they don't trust or are p!ssed at IM.
- No one can change what IM is doing.
- People will b!tch no matter what.
- Other people will b!tch at people for b!tching about the locomotive either before or after it's actually made.

This, my friends, is model railroading in the Internet age.     

[asarge]

Well said Kalbert and Puddington. Wyatt, don't some of these guys run ya' down. In the whole darn scheme of things, they don't matter. Unless IM doesn't get enough orders, this model s going to be produced by Intermountain, not by Fox Valley with their mechanism problems on the Heritage Unit GEVO's, not by BLMA with their wheel clearance issues on what....2 models now AND their will be multiple versions with a whole lot of roads done that Kato won't touch.

It's not a perfect world people, not a perfect world by any stretch of your modeling expertise. IM will produce these and they will be good models. I'll take my IM F7's over any other model anyday of the week. They run and run and run and pull and pull and pull and they don't sit on a work bench under a light with someone taking a picture, blowing it up to 475% and then posting online about how terrible a model it is because you can see every imperfection under a magnifying glass.
 

[wcfn100]

I would LOVE to see BLI announce a new N scale steam locomotive and watch what happens.

Jason

[6axlepwr]

I am going to have to disagree with you Dave.

You can change what IM does if you voice your concerns. You are the consumer. If enough people stand up and demand better, I think they will listen and possibly make that step forward.

I am not saying I won't buy it. I will if it is truly a good model.

That is true that people will bitch no matter what. I am not bitching though. I am a concerned consumer and what what todays technology can deliver. That is not asking to much because IM will already use todays technology. It all depends on what extent they will. Will they go cheap and have ham fisted knuckle busters or will they go to the finite and have beautiful latches like Atlas does.

I want a better SD40-2 than what Kato has put out because I know it can be done and it won't cost anymore or a whole lot more than putting out a carved peice of soap. It will take longer because it takes the machine longer to cut finer detail. I've got a couple dozen Kato SD40-2's. If IM pulls a rabbit out of the hat, those two dozen Kato SD40-2's will become two dozen IM SD40-2's.

I do not htink model railroading in the internet age is all that bad. I have nmade loads of friends, have had great discussions like this one, purchased all my Kato SD40-2's for under $60.00. Since we live all over the country and world. this forum is as if we all went out to dinner together and are discussing what we want with each other. Some of it spirited and some of it not.