Intermountain SD40-2 !!11!

[Dave V]

Truth is I think most of it was all a running joke and no one actually knew anything (let alone "a chosen few")... relax man. (and I am just ribbing you).

I think it is logical when looking at what to produce in n-scale to choose items that you can sell a lot of and get the best bang for your tooling buck. Coal hoppers are probably the easiest example. The SD40-2 is obviously a very prolific locomotive and would be on the short-list that could produce paint and trim variations for years and years. However there is a significant tooling investment to do these right as there were quite a few spotting differences across a wide variety of railroads and EMD variations. If you do them "right" you are looking at a LOT of work, a lot of up front investment and time to get them to market. Then you would constantly be working on new revisions and releases for literally years and years. It is a big commitment to do it properly and I would imagine that decision is tough and not taken lightly. Especially if there are so many other projects going on and factories that can't seem to produce on schedule.

IM has hinted at doing these (at least rumors) for a long while now.  I tend to agree that past offerings of IM haven't been quite as stellar compared to others, but we'll wait and see. So now we have two current manufacturers making them (Kato and IM). Is there room for more? I guess that depends on how many variations are produced. Obviously Kato has demonstrated (so far) that they aren't interested in producing a wide range of SD40-2 offerings. So that leaves a lot of room for IM to cover the rest of the field.

Is there room for another company?

- jamie

<Ah, found my very warm beer over here on the a$$hat bar...>

I wouldn't be so sure...  But if it was an elaborate hoax of which I was one if the "butts," then I'm an unhappy camper.  I held off on bashing some Katos because the rumor was a company you all know and (mostly) love was going to do it and do it Conrail-specific.

Truth be told my interest in Conrail is waning anyway.

[learmoia]

I wonder if IM is developing their own trucks for these??

I HOPE NOT!

We have just released the reservation fliers this week and will be waiting to see the interest level for the model.

Nothing for me in this run.. but if they make it to Conrail and CP Rail.. I'll take every number..

But then again.. If the Mystery "-2" Manufacturer does an announcement, I'll wait for what will surely be a better model.

Case in point.. NS Heritage SD70ACEs

~Ian

[Ike the BN Freak]

I got that ad too, and HOLY CRAP talk about pricey.  The Kato, which they did in some of the same paint schemes, was only $118 for DC and $158 with DCC.

Kato just released the ATSF, Pan Am, and UP in the exact same body styles.  The BN is an early, which they haven't done in for a while.  Maybe this will push Kato to do them more often...maybe, just maybe.

I'd like these to be awesome locos, however I'm gonna wait.  Might get some of the Kato SD40-2s off MB Klein and strip to repaint in roads I want, such as KCS white and GATX.  Esp being some on there are under $60, so I can get 2 Kato's for close to the street price of the IM unit...

[wazzou]

- jamie

<Ah, found my very warm beer over here on the a$$hat bar...>

Where in the heck have you been Jamie?

[lashedup]

Where in the heck have you been Jamie?

Life, work, kids - just crazy busy.  Skibbe started putting signals on the modules and I'm getting sucked back in. I've been lurking, but just haven't posted much because I haven't done much modeling.

We have a show in a few weeks and I'm going to try to get a few things done.

Thanks for asking.

-jamie

[High Hood]

Man I Hope So


And I hope Intermountain sells the Flexi Coil side frame as a separate part for my fleet of Atlas SD50s!

~Ian

If the CR does have Flexis I may get one and repaint in NS Horsehead, and if they are good to go on SD50's then SD40E's will be much more doable.  I'm still hoping for N&W units with Triple Clasp Trucks, but if they make those I'll probably go broke. 

[lock4244]

I got that ad too, and HOLY CRAP talk about pricey.  The Kato, which they did in some of the same paint schemes, was only $118 for DC and $158 with DCC.

Kato just released the ATSF, Pan Am, and UP in the exact same body styles.  The BN is an early, which they haven't done in for a while.  Maybe this will push Kato to do them more often...maybe, just maybe.

I'd like these to be awesome locos, however I'm gonna wait.  Might get some of the Kato SD40-2s off MB Klein and strip to repaint in roads I want, such as KCS white and GATX.  Esp being some on there are under $60, so I can get 2 Kato's for close to the street price of the IM unit...

It's the price one pays for road specific details. I'm not willing to speculate either way on just how the road specific they will be, but they did a nice job on the SD40-2W... my opinion at least. For me, with an interest in Canadian prototypes, the one universal pet peeve I have is that no (or very few) off the shelf models come with headlights in the nose the way CN and CP had as a standard feature on their GP30/35/38/40/40-2's and SD40/40-2 fleets. That road specific detail alone is worth a lot to me. The vast majority of these also came with single rear headlights.

[Puddington]

I got that ad too, and HOLY CRAP talk about pricey.  The Kato, which they did in some of the same paint schemes, was only $118 for DC and $158 with DCC.

Kato tooling is at least 6 years old and most likely older.... paid off 100 times and then some. The IM is new tooling.......tooling is expensive; very, very expensive and although I doubt they will pay it off on a first run they do have to get some return so the MSRP isn't out of line IMHO.... Plus; if they read 1/10 of the naysayers comments contained within this thread they'd cancel said tooling, scrap the project and run for the HO hills...............

[C855B]

Looks like none for me, at least on this run, and maybe not at all. All the UPs are numbered as ex-CNW units, >1998.

I find it interesting they chose that particular series as it's not representative of the bulk of UP's -2 roster. Maybe there's a reason, so I'll need to study roster pics to determine if most of the body and nose details are correct for UP's early purchases. The IM artwork appears to show the correct radiator grill but seems to have the 88" nose; pre-merger UP bought 81" and 111".

EDIT: No joy. IM's artwork is a miss on pre-merger UP early -2 nose, so the repainted/renumbered CNW units must have been a deliberate choice. Maybe an opportunity to do some modeling?

[kalbert]

I got that ad too, and HOLY CRAP talk about pricey.  The Kato, which they did in some of the same paint schemes, was only $118 for DC and $158 with DCC.

They're on N Scale Supply listed for $100-$190 depending on how it's equipped. Not really out of line considering the new Atlas S2 falls close to that range.

The Kato can be found for less, because it is a rerun of a 15 year old design. It's not a bad design, but be real here. It's 15 years old, has seen no significant changes, and can be run and rerun for time and materials. Time and materials aren't the expensive part, especially when you own your own factory. Why they have only run these out a couple times in 15 years is baffling.

[Scottl]

I'm looking forward to seeing the IM units and hope that it twigs Kato into another run as well.  More SD40-2 models is a good thing.

Now on to serious matters:  FVM, where is that SD70M-2 that was promised?  I promise I won't bash 

[6axlepwr]

I would like to clear something up here.

I am not naysaying and I am not bashing. I am stating a fact. IM has not lived up to their advertising of releasing state of the art model. Now they did not exactly say state of the art, but their wording in their adverts lead you to believe it. I would be happy to give IM my hobby money if they would deliver a model worthy of it.  and in fact I just purchased an SD40T-2 to see if I could clean it up (thankfully for only $40.00). My point is they are not delivering state of the art models. They are not "BREAKING" any new ground. Even though Kato SD40-2's are old, they are still FAR better than any SD IM has put out.

I have no issue with the price points either. BUT and this a very important fact to look at. Athearn in HO scale is releasing very state of the art models at the same price point that IM is releasing this SD40-2. If this "New Tooled" "Extremely Fine Detailed Tooling" model is anything less than a Kato smooth running chassis and an Atlas well detailed exterior, then it is NOT worth a dime. If in fact IM is using the same factory that Atlas gets their molds cut, then the technology is there to produce the most outstanding model ever seen in N. But will IM step up to the plate. I doubt it, but we will have to wait and see. My doubting is based on past releases as well. Not just pulled out of the air. Their SD40-2W was/is nothing to write home about either. Still light years behind the quality of Kato and Atlas.

I for one will not preorder anything from IM based on past release quality.

[Scottl]

    Please don't suggest you are merely stating facts- you have articulated a clear opinion, your last post is case and point.  Let's wait and see what they make.

[6axlepwr]

Yes, it may be my opinion. Opinion can also be based on fact. It is a fact that IM tooling for locomotives is NOT state of the art. They have not proven that yet. Yes, we will wait and see. You can only judge the quality by what has already been released and they have not release a state of the art locomotive. They can say all they want in their adverts about what it WILL be, but past experience on not just one, but three SD locomotives is that they have not lived up to their advertisements. We have examples in the hobby of "State of the art". Atlas is starting to show their willingness to tip toe outside the box Kato has great tooling and an outstanding chassis, but still has yet to step outside the box with todays model technology. State of the art is not an opinion. It is tangible. Something you can see and hold in your hands. N-Scale has not even begun to fully utilize "state of the art" tooling yet. And I will repeat myself again. N-Scale will probably never fully utilize state of the art tooling like the HO market is enjoying because the N-Scale community does not demand it.

I understand that a locomotive costs a lot of money to produce. I understand that investment. But there is also evidence that a state of the art model sells. Even a one off that cost more than $800K to produce and now is being re-released because the first run sold out. Albeit, that was HO scale. I know the N-Scale SD40-2 will not cost $800K to produce, but even at 100K, you can get some freaking awesome tooling done. Worlds better than the bar of soap they carved the tunnel motor out of.

This is a discussion. An open forum where we can discuss what is on our mind. So if you want to kill the discussion, then ask the moderator to kill or lock the thread. But I am not going away and by all means, I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Simply stating some observations and opinions I have gathered from those observations. Yes, I look forward to seeing what comes of this model and I hope IM proves me wrong. I challenge them to prove me wrong. Past history is all we have to go on and so far it is not good for IM and I am not going to shut up about it until IM shuts me up with a state of the art model.

[Scottl]

I agree with some of your opinions but not all.  I have owned a tunnel motor for almost ten years and it is a good product that tried to push the envelope and did not quite get there in terms of execution. IM made substantial advancements on prototype specific details, adding etched details, and made them available for a price that was not radically higher than the generic competition.  Atlas and Kato, the gold standard held up here, produce generic plastic models of fine quality, but don't push that boundary. 

I give them credit for pushing the limits of what was available and you can point to a number of innovations in those releases.  IM has improved in the ten years since and I expect more improvement this time.  Will it be perfect?  Who knows.  Are they cr*p to be dismissed before they even exist?  Not in my books.

I'm not trying to stifle discussion or any opinions, but I think making strong statements about IM that broad brush them is not consistent with a reasoned discussion.