In pursuit of the perfect ATSF Ce-3 caboose

[randgust]

I'll always say 'pursuit' rather than 'achievement', because somebody can always come up with one more tweak that even I haven't thought of here.

Back in the 70's when I first started N and Santa Fe modeling, I was aware that the typical N Atlas/Trix/Bachmann/whoever caboose was 'supposed' to be a Santa Fe caboose, but when you got right down to it, was not detailed or painted correctly for much of anything.  So I got hold of some Walthers N caboose decals, and did a class upgrade and repaint of a fleet of Trix cabooses.  Ended up with about 10 of them, including one that had an AAA-battery inside to light a PFM 1.5v micro-lite by using the smokejack as a switch.

Those were 'close' but still missed the outside sealed-window look, and when Centralia/Intermountain started to sell theirs, it was pretty much love at first sight.  So I've been slowly retiring the 'road cabooses' from Trix to IM's, and tricking them out with Richmond Controls constant lighting - particularly the signature red end marker.   Beautiful models, seriously.   Jim Hinds of Richmond Controls sells a module and kit that does electrical pickup with metal wheels, wipers, and a capacitor-equipped board that will hold the lighting and marker with constant light and absolutely no flicker.

That has effectively solved the normal road 'pool caboose' Ce-1 and Ce-2 classes, but ATSF also had an evolutionary hybrid in the middle that gets a lot of imitation but is a project unto itself, the Ce-3.

What you've got is an original (often older) standard road caboose, that was 'semi-modernized', did not get the sealed windows, electrical upgrades, or shock-control underframe, and was assigned to local, non-pool service.   To keep these cabooses from wandering off where they didn't belong on mainline freights, they were flagged with a yellow cupola.    That bright yellow cupola made for one of the most colorful caboose schemes of all time:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pHdMGaR6rR8/T5gle1TjvMI/AAAAAAAAHEw/zAcorAGZluM/s1600/atsf999625b.jpg

You'll see that yellow cupola imitated on lots of train sets and inaccurate cars just because it's so colorful.  What I'm after is an accurate model that can stand up to the scrutiny of the Centralia/IM cars, which won't be easy. 

And, this is intended to be an operating, not a display, model.  So not only will it be equipped with the best operating features I can find, it will also have a custom lighting package.   Unlike most of my road cabooses, my local caboose gets 'run around' a lot and is on the layout in two directions.  So, it should have TWO, not one, red end markers, that change direction as needed.    That concept would require a custom-designed light package from Jim, and he accepted the challenge.  This appears to be the only one he's every tried this on.

So, that's the preface, and now to see just how complicated I can make what would normally be 'almost' a shake-the-box approach.

I also finally got a copy of Priest's 'Santa Fe Waycars', and you'd never think you could fill an entire book with what most people think is a rather identical caboose fleet, but you actually can.   Out of an entire CHAPTER on the Ce-3's, I found a specific car I liked - almost like the one above, and like everything else, is almost but not quite like every other caboose out there.  They had amazing individual variances.

[randgust]

Just to give you an idea.....

Look at the picture link above.   One of the strangest things about the Ce-3's, as a class, is that the screens managed to stay in the windows when the cars got repainted Indian Red.   The lower half of the windows literally looks tinted red, and it's the 800-lb gorilla, you can't ignore it.  How do you accurately model either the window screens, or the impression of the screens; i.e. the reddish color tint on the exterior of the glass, lower half only?  I think I've got it, but you'll have to stick around to see what I did.

The other thing you get into is that these are moving targets, literally, as they evolved over time.  Ce's started with black roofs and no cupola numbers, then cupola numbers.  And ACI labels and lube plate blocks, and consolidated wheel stencils.  Then red roofs and gothic instead of roman reporting marks.  Some Ce-3's had black cupola numbers, some had white.  Some end ladders with black, some white, some red.   Reflective spots started out as little ATSF heralds, then went to white squares.   From the original 1967 project start to mass retirements in the 80's, the cars changed quite a bit.

[bbussey]

The Atlas "Trainman" caboose is your best starting point.  I'd rather start with an accurate model that just needs to have some details upgraded than have to perform a major kitbash or scratchbuild.  Especially if you want a fleet of them.

You can etch new window frames from .004" brass, and then inset clear styrene followed by the brass etchings into the current windows to simulate the sealed windows.  The current inset window frames can be built up with styrene strips if the inset is too deep.  You can etch .05mm stainless steel to fabricate the screens, as I did with the ESM Keyser Valley Caboose kits, or use one of the ultra-fine etched meshes supplied by various Japanese hobby manufacturers, and either can be painted whatever colors are desired.  Other manufacturer OEM parts (or Atlas OEM parts from one of the higher-end caboose models) can be used to upgrade detail parts.  Wire or etched stainless/brass for the end rails and etched stainless/brass for the ladders.  Laser-cut wood or etched brass for the roofwalks.  Stainless steel .006" wire for the various grab irons.  Atlas or Kato leaf-spring friction-bearing trucks with the metal wheels of choice.  Body-mounted knuckle couplers of choice.  And some more weight inside to give the model some heft.

[Mike C]

   You can get VERY fine mesh screen for the lower portion of the windows and probably tint it red. Here is one place to look http://www.alibaba.com/products/micron_stainless_steel_mesh_screen/--143305.html I think its mesh for filters ? ...Mike

[randgust]

Bob, this is a one-off of a Ce-3, no sealed windows, which is why this little beast is unique.  My 'fleet cars' have already become the Centralia/IM ones, the Trix rebuilds are going rapidly into retirement.  See the photo link in the first post, this is not a normal caboose.   They only had about 40 of these systemwide, and every one of them seemed to be individuals.

As far as the rest of your details, that's pretty much the recipe here; I've cross-kitted a whole lot of unrelated parts.

The Atlas Trainman is good, but the original Trix body is actually better, as long as you ignore all the clunky details.  More on that later.

This isn't a criticism of the IM one, what brought this on is that the IM's look so good, with all the details, that my original Trix Ce-3 that I made back about 1974 was looking pretty horrid in comparison.  In fact, I don't even have a decent shot of it, and usually keep it out of any posted photos!  This is pretty much a pre-IM 'standard' build; which with all the handrails, ladders, paint and decals wasn't bad - except the windows aren't even close.


Coupled to it - you can see the 'predecessor' Ce-3, the 999780 (not even a valid car number) with the dirty yellow cupola.

Compare to an Intermountain - equipped with the Richmond Controls marker:


The flat-sealed windows, extended draft gear, everything..yeah, worth it now that they got the color right.  But not a Ce-3.

[JMaurer1]

I think I would try some red Tamiya translucent paint. It is more of a tint than a solid paint making it possible to 'see' in the windows while still being red.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Does IM do the unrebuilt cars? Perhaps use one of those as a starting point?

[randgust]

OK, so take the wayback machine and beam yourself back to about 1969.....

Having tried about every ATSF caboose body at least once, I still come back to the Trixes as my favorite.  They are also cheap and available on Ebay as most modelers pass on them today.   But, they need hacked.  Severely.  Remove all the cast-on handrails, and then, get rid of the cast-on roofwalks.

I got Gold Medal etched covered-hopper walkways, as they had some bigger plates that could be pieced together.  This pretty much shows the basic body and rough paint.   'Pay no attention' to the other caboose, that's another project using a Trix body I'm also working on (who knew there were that many unrebuilt 2000-class still around in the early 70's?  Not me!)

[randgust]

I did a lot of unnecessary extra work on my first Intermountain to get electrical pickup, hacking apart a Kato caboose to get the trucks, pickup wipers, etc. all on the right wheelbase for an ATSF caboose.   Jim Hinds IM conversion kit with axle wipers and metal wheels convinced me I'd put a lot of extra work in for nothing.

But in this case, I was looking at full reliability, so hacking in that Kato frame with the Kato trucks was still worth the fight.  This is the IM caboose showing the frame splices, pretty much the same deal going on here with the Trix build; object being to get 8x8 end-axle pickup on a metal-wheeled, easy rolling frame.



To have easy access into the interior (needed for the lighting package install, attach the steps to the body permanently and cut the frame behind the wall.  That works for any caboose idea you've got, and you'll never have to worry about detachable end ladders.

[randgust]

The details and finishing are a real conglomeration:

Kato caboose trucks

Kato caboose smokejack

Kato handbrake stands and handbrake wheel

GMM photoetched roofwalk parts

.010 brass wire end rails, grabs, handrails and roof grabs

Etched brass end ladders

MT 2004 (drop-shank) couplers as ride height is now corrected.

Micro-Scale caboose set 60-914,  Poly-scale "Signal Red" (a little faded compared to new ATSF red, deliberate), Reefer Yellow, Grimy Black.
Walthers lube plates, Micro-scale ACI labels.

You really have to look for it, but the marker LED's are there, right under the roof edge center, on the end of a .035 evergreen styrene tube drilled out hollow to .020, with the LED wires inside of it.   Unbelievable.  I'm such a sucker for this lighting stuff!







No, we're not done yet.    Now the real fun starts.

[superchief]

LOOKING GREAT RANDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Gordon

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Cool build, but there's still "something" that seems off. I think it's the windows.

Have you ever tried filing them down to thin the sashes and mullions?

[peteski]

With the modern macro-photography, compared to contemporary models, the rivet heads look huge! They probably scale to be more than an inch in diameter. More like something you would see on a model of a riveted bridge than on a caboose.  I also agree that the glazed parts of the windows look too small.  Also, the glazing (Kristal Klear?) shows a pronounced lens effect.

But I'm sure that viewed in-person, the caboose looks just fine.

[wcfn100]

Did all the Ce-3 class have a peaked roof like the photo you linked to.  I haven't seen any mention of that and all the models so far have round roofs.


Jason

[randgust]

From Priest's book, they grab-bagged individual cars out of two different source classes in no particular pattern - the 500 and the 2201, the 500 having peaked roof and the 2201 having round roof.  The Priest shot of 621 sure looks like a round-roof to me, could be wrong, doesn't bother me as I have to really study end shots to figure it out anyway.

I do have two, and possibly three, deliberate glitches I built in:  The 621 had white cupola numbers, not black.  They were invisible, and that's why some other cars got black, I made mine black.  It also didn't have a black background on the mandated lube plate, it was red (which I think was a technical violation); I don't have any such lube plate decals.   Most of the Ce-3's were also stenciled for the home yard, this one wasn't, no clue why.  I really can't tell if the ladder tops are/were white, red, or black, too weathered, I voted for (were) white so they show up better.

To me the actual ATSF windows look just as clunky, like they had double mullions in the center, on the 'doesn't bother me' list.   And what you can't see with the Krystal Kleer is Jim Hinds pile of wire and electronics behind the glass, the capacitor is the size of a peanut M&M, so that's a trade-off. If you could see in there you'd be saying 'I SEE STUFF'.. 

What does bother me about the car, that I can't do much about, is that all of this class had the cupola walls fully extending to the side walls, there is no black cupola roof edge on many of the ATSF cars and none of the Ce-3's.  Those are the kind of subtle, weird differences between ATSF cabooses that I'm not exactly sure how it crept into the molds, as you'll even see that on the Intermountain cars.  So on determining whether I was going to try to graft and saw the cupola wider or just let it go, let it go won.

Found this interesting shot:  http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1778902

It's really hard to find any survivors with the original wood windows.  Most rotted out and many of the Ce-3's got sealed windows by the early 80's.  Note that whoever bought it painted the cupola red again.  That's what I mean by the cupola edge problem.   I'm not sure anybody in N has got that variation right.

That window mullion may be the screen frame, whatever it is, looks like about a 1x4.  I've been expirimenting successfully with diluted matching Poly-scale over the bottom half of the windows, came out pretty good, to try to simulate that pronounced 'red screen' effect, anyway, I'm going with it.   To me, the real challenge is getting the weathering right.