Author Topic: Bachmann S4's are hitting the shelves....  (Read 10561 times)

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sirenwerks

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Re: Bachmann S4's are hitting the shelves....
« Reply #60 on: August 12, 2013, 10:03:03 AM »
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Why is critical analysis always labelled as a bad thing, as somehow destructive or counter-productive?  What's wrong with knowing the shortfalls of a model?  Obviously, the good points are being brought forth too and I like the idea of being an informed consumer.
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bbussey

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Re: Bachmann S4's are hitting the shelves....
« Reply #61 on: August 12, 2013, 10:10:14 AM »
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I'm waiting for the Atlas S2 (and may wait further for the inevitable New Haven scheme most likely in Release 2), but I applaud Bachmann's S4 efforts.

If Bachmann makes the S4 truck frames available in parts, it may be possible to "kitbash" the Atlas S2 into an S4.

Slightly OT:  Now that the S2 is imminent ... has anyone thought about kitbashing an S1 shell from an RS1 shell and fitting it to the S2?  That may be something I try, since NH had twice as many S1 units than S2 units.
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VonRyan

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Re: Bachmann S4's are hitting the shelves....
« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2013, 10:11:52 AM »
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Why is critical analysis always labelled as a bad thing, as somehow destructive or counter-productive?  What's wrong with knowing the shortfalls of a model?  Obviously, the good points are being brought forth too and I like the idea of being an informed consumer.

I'll second the motion of being a properly informed consumer, but unless the same people who are complaining decide to get past the complaints and formulate some constructive solutions, we could have done without the complaints.
Although I do not plan to buy an S4 since I'm buying an S2, I have already came up with a possible solution to the windows. Handrails should be common knowledge for some (certainly not me), and others can live with it.
To heck with the coupler though... no matter what Bachmann does other than shrink it, the "E Z Mate" will always look fugly.

And of course, after having typed all this out I realized that I'm simply complaining about people complaining.  :facepalm:


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Dave V

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Re: Bachmann S4's are hitting the shelves....
« Reply #63 on: August 12, 2013, 10:12:22 AM »
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Why is critical analysis always labelled as a bad thing, as somehow destructive or counter-productive?  What's wrong with knowing the shortfalls of a model?  Obviously, the good points are being brought forth too and I like the idea of being an informed consumer.

Because the Railwire used to be about building or upgrading models, not just bitching about them.

Bachmann doesn't usually get it 100% right.  Got it.  But they're committed to N and can actully get product from announcement to shelves in our lifetime (and yes, I understand why).

Less whining, more modeling would make this place the forum I joined.

EDIT:  Pointing out flaws works much better as part of a comprehensive product review that actually informs the consumer.  Speculation and bias do no such thing.  Case in point; hood width.  Speculation said it was way too wide; measurement showed it to be pretty darn close.  As a consumer I want to know the model's merits from an unemotional, unbiased perspective...not an out-of-hand dismissal from someone with an axe to grind.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 10:18:29 AM by Dave Vollmer »

Philip H

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Re: Bachmann S4's are hitting the shelves....
« Reply #64 on: August 12, 2013, 10:36:20 AM »
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Quote
Why is critical analysis always labelled as a bad thing, as somehow destructive or counter-productive?  What's wrong with knowing the shortfalls of a model?  Obviously, the good points are being brought forth too and I like the idea of being an informed consumer.

First, what Dave Vollmer said.

Second, because the rampant speculation about MOTIVES (why did they do that questions) is starting to drive folks away from the forum.

Third, because when someone buys something and posts they've bought it, they don't get a chance to get home and measure/photograph it before the derision starts - from people who haven't seen it.

Fourth, because the factual case on which some people base their derision isn't presented as their first post on the matter - it gets buried on page 6 or 7.
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Catt

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Re: Bachmann S4's are hitting the shelves....
« Reply #65 on: August 12, 2013, 10:42:12 AM »
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If Bachmann does a painted /unlettered version in their favorite shade of green (like the70 tonner) there will be at least one of them at my house. :D If I decide I don't like the windows and railings I will change them.
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Bob Bufkin

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Re: Bachmann S4's are hitting the shelves....
« Reply #66 on: August 12, 2013, 10:44:04 AM »
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First, what Dave Vollmer said.

Second, because the rampant speculation about MOTIVES (why did they do that questions) is starting to drive folks away from the forum.

Third, because when someone buys something and posts they've bought it, they don't get a chance to get home and measure/photograph it before the derision starts - from people who haven't seen it.

Fourth, because the factual case on which some people base their derision isn't presented as their first post on the matter - it gets buried on page 6 or 7.
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MVW

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Re: Bachmann S4's are hitting the shelves....
« Reply #67 on: August 12, 2013, 11:22:35 AM »
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First, what Dave Vollmer said.

Second, because the rampant speculation about MOTIVES (why did they do that questions) is starting to drive folks away from the forum.

Third, because when someone buys something and posts they've bought it, they don't get a chance to get home and measure/photograph it before the derision starts - from people who haven't seen it.

Fourth, because the factual case on which some people base their derision isn't presented as their first post on the matter - it gets buried on page 6 or 7.

And if I may offer a fifth -- because the complaints are often so pedantic in nature. The complaints sometimes read as though they are written by someone who just can't wait to show off his uber knowledge and ultra super special dedication to modeling. It's more about ego than providing information that's of real value. They may be correct, but they still come off as the first half of an  :ashat:.

There are a majority of posters here that -- through their contributions and their attitudes -- you can tell it would be a pleasure to meet and socialize with. And there are some that don't fall into that category.

Jim

kc9jts

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Re: Bachmann S4's are hitting the shelves....
« Reply #68 on: August 12, 2013, 11:46:01 AM »
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And if I may offer a fifth -- because the complaints are often so pedantic in nature. The complaints sometimes read as though they are written by someone who just can't wait to show off his uber knowledge and ultra super special dedication to modeling. It's more about ego than providing information that's of real value. They may be correct, but they still come off as the first half of an  :ashat:.

There are a majority of posters here that -- through their contributions and their attitudes -- you can tell it would be a pleasure to meet and socialize with. And there are some that don't fall into that category.

Jim

+1  Thank you

6axlepwr

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Re: Bachmann S4's are hitting the shelves....
« Reply #69 on: August 12, 2013, 12:05:30 PM »
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As to address the window issue, I would suggest going to American Model builders (AMB) and asking them to make laser cut windows. Or this may be a good idea for an after market product for someone to try. Or simply make the drawings yourself and finding a laser cutting shop to cut the windows. This outfit was pretty decent to deal with when I called them about some laser cutting.

http://www.customlasercutting.com/

 Laser cut windows will fit flush with the outside edge of the cab.

VonRyan

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Re: Bachmann S4's are hitting the shelves....
« Reply #70 on: August 12, 2013, 12:22:50 PM »
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Because the Railwire used to be about building or upgrading models, not just bitching about them.

Bachmann doesn't usually get it 100% right.  Got it.  But they're committed to N and can actully get product from announcement to shelves in our lifetime (and yes, I understand why).

Less whining, more modeling would make this place the forum I joined.

EDIT:  Pointing out flaws works much better as part of a comprehensive product review that actually informs the consumer.  Speculation and bias do no such thing.  Case in point; hood width.  Speculation said it was way too wide; measurement showed it to be pretty darn close.  As a consumer I want to know the model's merits from an unemotional, unbiased perspective...not an out-of-hand dismissal from someone with an axe to grind.

Preach it!
I second all of these motions.


As to address the window issue, I would suggest going to American Model builders (AMB) and asking them to make laser cut windows. Or this may be a good idea for an after market product for someone to try. Or simply make the drawings yourself and finding a laser cutting shop to cut the windows. This outfit was pretty decent to deal with when I called them about some laser cutting.

http://www.customlasercutting.com/

 Laser cut windows will fit flush with the outside edge of the cab.

You can get similar results just by taking the original window to use as a tracing guide on a piece of clear acetate right out of the box of a fresh MT car. (I stockpile just for such an occasion, case-in-point the windows for my brass N5c cabin)





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Scottl

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Re: Bachmann S4's are hitting the shelves....
« Reply #71 on: August 12, 2013, 12:27:22 PM »
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It looks pretty good.  The handrails are the worst in my eye, but also something that can be fixed.

Has anyone ever thinned the cab from the inside before fitting new windows?  A lot of work I suppose, but maybe a way to step it up visually.

sirenwerks

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Re: Bachmann S4's are hitting the shelves....
« Reply #72 on: August 12, 2013, 01:14:06 PM »
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unemotional, unbiased perspective...

Must be my mistake; I always thought that was critical analysis - that it was not synonymous with fault finding, or criticism.  As in Tim's eyewitness account via measurement to address perception of over-width hood syndrome.  Perhaps I need a newer dictionary to replace my 60s-era hand-me-down OED, and to get rid of my suede elbow patches. 
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Dave V

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Re: Bachmann S4's are hitting the shelves....
« Reply #73 on: August 12, 2013, 01:26:29 PM »
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Must be my mistake; I always thought that was critical analysis - that it was not synonymous with fault finding, or criticism.  As in Tim's eyewitness account via measurement to address perception of over-width hood syndrome.  Perhaps I need a newer dictionary to replace my 60s-era hand-me-down OED, and to get rid of my suede elbow patches.

Precisely.  The hood width WAS critical analysis.  Saying it fails just because it's Bachmann before having measurements and the like is NOT critical analysis.

I saw the word "pedantic" above...  Perfect for describing yet another thread where we're debating semantics instead of modeling.

Enough vocabulary class.  Back to discussing how to improve upon this model.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 01:43:30 PM by Dave Vollmer »

160pennsy

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Re: Bachmann S4's are hitting the shelves....
« Reply #74 on: August 12, 2013, 01:35:20 PM »
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Question to those forum members that have purchased the Bachmann S4 and have also reviewed the exploded parts diagrams that are typically included in the box.
Does each cab window have a separate insert of clear plastic or are multiple windows molded onto each section that then gets inserted from behind the window openings?
With each cab window being a separate insert then one solution to "hide" the wall thickness could be carefully painting the inside (recessed) edges of the clear shiny plastic with a flat finish paint (that matches the cab color).
If the scenario ends up multiple windows molded onto each section, perhaps they can be cut apart into individual window inserts and then doing the same painting as outlined above.
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