MTL Circus Car Problems

[Ken Barrett]

I recently purchased quite a few of the Micro-Train/Con-Cor Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey circus cars, and I am having a horrible time at trying to get the cars to stay together. The cars sit on  heavyweight, three-axle trucks. The couplers come open or ride up over each other, and the cars separate. I've shortened the coupler shaft to the minimum length. I've even glued the knuckle in place on many of the cars to prevent random openings; however, nothing seems to work. Can anyone out there help with a solution, please? Has this been a long-time problem with these cars? Should I try using the two-axle passenger trucks? I'm just at a loss on what to do. I must say I feel betrayed by MTL. It seems to me they should have known of these problems and made some effort to recall the cars and to have fixed these problems.

[mecgp7]

Check the uncoupling trip pins. They can sit too high above the top side of the coupler. They can hit the under side of the car and stick essentially opening the coupler.
Does this happen only on curves?

[Ken Barrett]

The cars come uncoupled on straight track as much as on curves. I'm aware of the protruding top of the trip pin problem, but that is not an issue here. The couplers ride up over each other randomly. I've turned cars around and switched trucks from one car to another, but the problem persists –– often at the same position on the layout, but with differing cars.

[Glenn Poole]

I've got a bunch of these too, and yes, you are right.  They do not stay coupled.  I have talked to Micro-Trains, and was basically told that they thought most people purchasing these cars were doing it for collector reasons and not for running.  Mine have been assigned to shelf queen status.

Note that these have the old coupler design and I are not the "reverse draft" design. 

I think you do what I did unless you are willing to alter the cars  (NO NO you can't do that with MT's).  If you are willing to alter them, I suggest you start with taking a knife and making them into "reverse draft" couplers.  If that doesn't work, I would suggest you body mount MT 1015 couplers and then tweak each car until they run near perfectly.  You can get them to run/roll near perfect but I don't think so with the couplers they come with.

[SkipGear]

The problem is in the verticle varianance in the coupler because of the long coupler extension. Body mounting is the best answer. I was able to solve my problems by shortening the coupler distance, but that only works fine at home. On an Ntrak layout with many verticle curves in the track, then the issues show up again.

[altohorn25]

My solution (although expensive) has solved this problem.  I run about a 35 car train made up of the sleepers, generator, stock, containers, flats, and rack cars.  I snipped off the factory couplers (again because of the non reverse draft angle problem) and body mounted 1015's.  I now have no problems running this train either on my home layout (19" radius curves) or the large Modutrak modular layout. (side note:  to make the sleepers more prototypical, I also cut the car skirting off and replaced the six wheel trucks with 4 wheel trucks).

Long story short - you need to replace the stock couplers with something else if you plan on running the train.

Nate

[Ken Barrett]

Ref: Glenn Poole's message above ––

Mr. Poole wrote: "I have talked to Micro-Trains, and was basically told that they thought most people purchasing these cars were doing it for collector reasons and not for running."

Mr. Poole, do you remember who made to you such a preposterous explanation for these cars' failures and when you talked with that person at MTL in Oregon about the problem?

If you had this conversation before the beginning of 2013, this tells me Micro-Trains had known about the problem with these cars before I began buying them in March and April of this year ( 2013). If so, Micro-Trains has in fact betrayed my trust and the trust of other N scalers by not doing anything to correct a defective product but simply letting it remain on the market.

Does anyone know why or when MTL decided not to make a RBBB white train (Blue Unit) pie car (diner) as it did for the silver train (Red Unit)? 

[JoeD]

Ken,

Those passenger car trucks have been in production for a very long time and are fussy.  It's one of several projects I have on our list of components I want to look into...just haven't gotten to them yet.  If you would like to try some body mount 1016's contact me at MTL and I will get you some samples.  I've only had a few complaints on these cars not staying together, but one complaint still needs to be delt with.  These are old ConCor cars and were fraught with assembly issues given their age.  Monday I will see what it takes to put the body mounts on them and let you know how to do the conversion.  Hopefully these will make it around your track not knowing how tight the turns are.  Also in another thread it was noted that one of our sales staff said these were designed to be essentially shelf queens...that was a miss-understanding I hope.  We/I hope all our cars make it on the track at least once in their lives )  Contact me at Joe@micro-trains.com and I will see what I can do for you.

Cheers
Joe

I recently purchased quite a few of the Micro-Train/Con-Cor Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey circus cars, and I am having a horrible time at trying to get the cars to stay together. The cars sit on  heavyweight, three-axle trucks. The couplers come open or ride up over each other, and the cars separate. I've shortened the coupler shaft to the minimum length. I've even glued the knuckle in place on many of the cars to prevent random openings; however, nothing seems to work. Can anyone out there help with a solution, please? Has this been a long-time problem with these cars? Should I try using the two-axle passenger trucks? I'm just at a loss on what to do. I must say I feel betrayed by MTL. It seems to me they should have known of these problems and made some effort to recall the cars and to have fixed these problems.

[Ken Barrett]

In Ref to altohorn25 above --

If Micro-Trains knew there was a problem with these cars, I do not think I should be responsible for the costs of changing the trucks/couplers. I think Micro-Trains should exchange the bad for the good. Today, I will try running some of the cars with 1017-S trucks/couplers, and I will report here what I experienced.

[Denver Road Doug]

If you had this conversation before the beginning of 2013, this tells me Micro-Trains had known about the problem with these cars before I began buying them in March and April of this year ( 2013). If so, Micro-Trains has in fact betrayed my trust and the trust of other N scalers by not doing anything to correct a defective product but simply letting it remain on the market.

What a way to get my blood boiling on this fine Mother's Day Sunday.   

I try to support Micro-Trains because they are such a pillar of the n-scale world, but I couldn't agree with you more about the MTL Red Train.   Micro-Trains very obviously "mailed it in" on these cars.   That is why I ended up selling mine for a considerable loss.   After paying $30+ per car for 16 cars and then finding out that they didn't even bother cleaning the flash off of the wheels, put 3-axle trucks on cars when they had the correct 2-axle trucks to offer in the first place, shorting some of the runs toward the end (to make it more "collectible"), the aforementioned mods needed to the cars...that was a tough pill to swallow.   And yes, it appears they used a batch of couplers that wouldn't have normally passed QC, as mine had that problem as well.

I have never cared that MTL does their "collector" thing or the crazy fantasy cars/sets or whatever they need to do to keep bringing out new n-scale items.   I was upset about the Red Train issues but chalked it up to just bad luck and didn't feel like I wanted to spend any more money putting lipstick on a pig.  But to hear that they knowingly did this, for the amount of money I paid (and lost) in this deal...well I guess I just lost a little more respect for them.    I have never heard any indication from them that "fantasy" or "collector" cars are somehow not intended for running, or that they're "dumbed down" to that effect.  And it would have cost them very little, if any, to do things RIGHT.   *Boo* on you, Micro-Trains.

[Catt]

From past experience with MTL I have come to the conclusion that the only person at MTL that gives a damn about MTL is Joe.

[JoeD]

Ken,  I didn't say you were financially responsible for the cost to make those changes and I think many on this forum will attest to my willingness to provide repair and replacement parts at no cost.  I will pull some 1018/1017 from stock and test them and would be happy to replace your defective components.  All of our couplers are tested after they are assembled...but given the numbers we do, sometimes you get bad ones...sometimes, several of them.  We are not intentionally trying to hoist bad product on people and more than  just about  any other manufacturer out there go to great lengths to take care of our customers.  If you have issues with the performance of our products contact us directly so we can address the issue.  I see posts here from time to time where folks have problems, take some drastic action before contacting me directly.  Much of that can be avoided with an email or phone call.  Contact me tomorrow via email at MTL and we can sort this out.

Take Care

Joe

In Ref to altohorn25 above --

If Micro-Trains knew there was a problem with these cars, I do not think I should be responsible for the costs of changing the trucks/couplers. I think Micro-Trains should exchange the bad for the good. Today, I will try running some of the cars with 1017-S trucks/couplers, and I will report here what I experienced.

[JoeD]

There's stuff I can't control and a lot going on on any given day at MTL.  We all do our best, believe me.  Instead of throwing up your hands and walking away from the cars, you could have contacted me directly and I would have done everything in my power to make those cars right...new trucks, new bodies if we had them...what ever was reasonable.  Possibly a few dollars out of our pockets would have saved you hundreds and tons of frustration.  MTL ownership is very supportive of my efforts in this area...

Please let me know next time.

Cheers

Joe
MTL

What a way to get my blood boiling on this fine Mother's Day Sunday.   

I try to support Micro-Trains because they are such a pillar of the n-scale world, but I couldn't agree with you more about the MTL Red Train.   Micro-Trains very obviously "mailed it in" on these cars.   That is why I ended up selling mine for a considerable loss.   After paying $30+ per car for 16 cars and then finding out that they didn't even bother cleaning the flash off of the wheels, put 3-axle trucks on cars when they had the correct 2-axle trucks to offer in the first place, shorting some of the runs toward the end (to make it more "collectible"), the aforementioned mods needed to the cars...that was a tough pill to swallow.   And yes, it appears they used a batch of couplers that wouldn't have normally passed QC, as mine had that problem as well.

I have never cared that MTL does their "collector" thing or the crazy fantasy cars/sets or whatever they need to do to keep bringing out new n-scale items.   I was upset about the Red Train issues but chalked it up to just bad luck and didn't feel like I wanted to spend any more money putting lipstick on a pig.  But to hear that they knowingly did this, for the amount of money I paid (and lost) in this deal...well I guess I just lost a little more respect for them.    I have never heard any indication from them that "fantasy" or "collector" cars are somehow not intended for running, or that they're "dumbed down" to that effect.  And it would have cost them very little, if any, to do things RIGHT.   *Boo* on you, Micro-Trains.

[altohorn25]

I'm sure this will open a can of worms, but.......

While part of me agrees with some of the points here in respect that there is an issue with the couplers on these cars and that it should have been corrected, I would also say that there are solutions available to make this train run, and run well. 

We are model railroaders.  Use your skills, experiment, and use the solutions of others on forums such as these make your equipment run in the manner in which you would like.  If all you want to do is shake the box and put your trains on the layout without ever doing any work on your equipment, then I have other issues with you.

Of all the train shows that I have been at (mostly in the Midwest), I have never seen a train of these cars running on a layout with the exception of mine.  I guess part of me enjoys the fact that I have taken the time to correct the issues and have a rather unique train that not many others have.  Again, what I have done to the cars is not all that difficult, it just takes some creative solutions and a little time (both of which I find an enjoyable part of the hobby).

Take it for what it is worth.  Let the verbal lashings begin.........

Nate

[Ken Barrett]

Gentlemen:

I've been working all morning at trying to get my RBBB Blue Unit train to run and stay together, but I have been unsuccessful. Never in N scale model railroading since the 1990s have I had such a problem.

I put MTL 1017 trucks/couplers on two of the RBBB cars and found they will run together with no problems. I've discovered the MTL 89' RBBB flat cars and the auto rack run together just fine and stay together with no problems.

I wish no one ill here; however, I have spent more than $700 on putting this train together and I am frustrated and immensely displeased with it all.

I appreciate Joe's kind message, and I shall contact him Monday, as he has invited me to do. I just must say I am terribly disappointed with MTL on this.

I have an old 26-car Con-Cor passenger set to which I applied years ago the 1017 trucks/couplers, and I have never had a problem with the train. It has given me hours of pleasure. So, I suggest, it is not the old Con-Cor cars that are the problem.

I'd still like to know why MTL decided not to make a white train (Blue Unit) pie (diner) car. That in itself is a betrayal, since those of us spending all this money on these trains reasonable expected MTL would make a white pie car after it made a silver (Blue Unit) pie car.

And, Nate, thank you for your input. Please, just keep in mind that all of us are not as skillful as apparently you are.