Author Topic: Anybody here have a brass Kumata EA or E1?  (Read 1356 times)

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u18b

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Anybody here have a brass Kumata EA or E1?
« on: April 25, 2013, 03:01:44 AM »
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I recently acquired a B&O EA/EB set.

I'd like to ask some people some questions and compare notes.

Ron
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

u18b

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Re: Anybody here have a brass Kumata EA or E1?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2013, 09:49:37 AM »
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I assume people know what loco I'm talking about.... but just in case...

http://www.spookshow.net/bolchief.html

Ron Bearden
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http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

havingfuntoo

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Re: Anybody here have a brass Kumata EA or E1?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2013, 09:58:34 AM »
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No I don't but I am guessing you are one of 'kens privileged 22' I had a look at that one but it went before I had made a decision ...... hence no decision to be made it was made for me ....   

u18b

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Re: Anybody here have a brass Kumata EA or E1?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2013, 02:03:18 PM »
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I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me.   :-X

Ron Bearden
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http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

Loren Perry

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Re: Anybody here have a brass Kumata EA or E1?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2013, 02:11:24 PM »
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I have a set of ATSF E-1s that I've superdetailed and in the case of the A unit, repainted. That's because the factory paint had a large run on the top of the cab as if it had been laid on its side to dry. I bought the units second hand from a fellow club member back in the 1990's.

I added glass to all windows, number boards, diaphragms and couplers and also fabricated a pilot coupler door (closed) from sheet metal to fill the hole in the pilot.

The detail is not as good as Kato or Life-Like/Walthers E units, but it's good enough for me. And if you want E-1's, it's the only game in  town.

Although the power train is smooth and quiet, the truck design is terrible. The unpowered axle in each truck is poorly supported and has a lot of slop which causes it to shimmy wildly as it passes through turnouts and their frogs resulting in short circuits. I want to eventually see if I can transpose the brass bodies of these units to Life-Like/Walthers E-6 chassis and drive trains. The Life-Like trucks are much better than the brass versions in both looks and performance. I can't find any at the moment, even at train shows, so I have to wait until they are re-issued.

u18b

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Re: Anybody here have a brass Kumata EA or E1?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2013, 02:17:20 PM »
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Would it be possible for you to take a photo of the chassis.  And in particular I'm interested in the geartower boxes.  Maybe close up shots.

I'm becoming something of an expert on the Kumata drive and need just a little bit more information before I post a clinic on these locos.
Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

u18b

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Re: Anybody here have a brass Kumata EA or E1?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2013, 07:48:40 PM »
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Although the power train is smooth and quiet, the truck design is terrible. The unpowered axle in each truck is poorly supported and has a lot of slop which causes it to shimmy wildly as it passes through turnouts and their frogs resulting in short circuits. I want to eventually see if I can transpose the brass bodies of these units to Life-Like/Walthers E-6 chassis and drive trains. The Life-Like trucks are much better than the brass versions in both looks and performance. I can't find any at the moment, even at train shows, so I have to wait until they are re-issued.

Actually, I think I can help you get these running perfectly.  Mine will run hours with no short or stall.

Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

Loren Perry

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Re: Anybody here have a brass Kumata EA or E1?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2013, 03:49:35 PM »
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Hi, Ron -

Thank you very much for your kind offer. I was thinking at first of making a tubular plastic bushing for the unpowered axle to cure the wobble and solve the short circuiting. The wheelset currently has so much freedom of movement in all three axes that it often splits the points on turnouts causing shorts. This happens on both trucks of both units, but randomly. When I compared it to my very smooth-running Life-Like E-6 models, the trucks and lengths matched (and Life-Like's sideframe detailing is vastly superior) so I decided to make a "Christine" engine by marrying the Life-Like chassis to the brass shell. Now I need to find two powered E-6 models to start the job. What's your approach?

u18b

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Re: Anybody here have a brass Kumata EA or E1?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2013, 03:57:15 PM »
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While possible, more than likely the shorts are not in the wheelsets.  Although if gaged too wide, that would be a problem.

Before I give some specific answers to you (I'm planning on a "class" on this loco series), is a photo of your E1 chassis a possibility?
Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

Loren Perry

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Re: Anybody here have a brass Kumata EA or E1?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2013, 07:54:36 PM »
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I can't figure out the photo posting thing on this site. Tried several times but no joy - just too complex for my rapidly fading intellect. I pray for the day when posting photos on a site like this is as simple and user-friendly as posting photos in an e-mail, ie. without having to involve a third-party photo hosting site. In fact, this clumsy photo-posting system is preventing me from posting a lot of good pictures I'd like to share, but now I'll just have to wait until N-Scale magazine publishes my upcoming articles for any of them to be seen.

Anyway, the problem isn't in the drive train or the gear towers - it's strictly in the trucks and the way they hold the unpowered axles. The drive train itself is silky smooth and I couldn't improve upon it other than to add flywheels. I gauged the wheels using my NMRA and Micro-Trains gauges. They're dead-on and the wheels run true. I think the main problem is vertical bounce. Because they aren't closely restricted in the vertical plane, they tend to bounce and lift off the railhead as they traverse frogs at any speed. Then the excessive side-play comes into the picture and the wheels shift off the rail to one side.

Couple all this with the fact that the appearance of the truck sideframes, while okay in its time, is now somewhat crude by today's standards, and I am more and more attracted to a complete chassis and truck replacement. I love the Life-Like trucks (Kato's are a tiny bit better but they don't have the early E-unit style I would need) so I really would prefer a swap-out of the entire chassis. My road includes two sets of LifeLike E-6's in ATSF and UP colors and they run as smoothly as my Kato E-9's.



While possible, more than likely the shorts are not in the wheelsets.  Although if gaged too wide, that would be a problem.

Before I give some specific answers to you (I'm planning on a "class" on this loco series), is a photo of your E1 chassis a possibility?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 07:56:24 PM by Loren Perry »

u18b

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Re: Anybody here have a brass Kumata EA or E1?
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2013, 08:27:08 PM »
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I can't figure out the photo posting thing on this site. Tried several times but no joy - just too complex for my rapidly fading intellect. I pray for the day when posting photos on a site like this is as simple and user-friendly as posting photos in an e-mail, ie. without having to involve a third-party photo hosting site. In fact, this clumsy photo-posting system is preventing me from posting a lot of good pictures I'd like to share, but now I'll just have to wait until N-Scale magazine publishes my upcoming articles for any of them to be seen.

If you want to email me a photo, I'll post it for you.   I have an EA and I think there are a couple of very important differences in the chassis.  I'm collecting photos of every chassis to show the differences.

Quote
Anyway, the problem isn't in the drive train or the gear towers - it's strictly in the trucks and the way they hold the unpowered axles. The drive train itself is silky smooth and I couldn't improve upon it other than to add flywheels. I gauged the wheels using my NMRA and Micro-Trains gauges. They're dead-on and the wheels run true. I think the main problem is vertical bounce. Because they aren't closely restricted in the vertical plane, they tend to bounce and lift off the railhead as they traverse frogs at any speed. Then the excessive side-play comes into the picture and the wheels shift off the rail to one side.

Yep, I fixed that on mine.

Quote
Couple all this with the fact that the appearance of the truck sideframes, while okay in its time, is now somewhat crude by today's standards, and I am more and more attracted to a complete chassis and truck replacement. I love the Life-Like trucks (Kato's are a tiny bit better but they don't have the early E-unit style I would need) so I really would prefer a swap-out of the entire chassis. My road includes two sets of LifeLike E-6's in ATSF and UP colors and they run as smoothly as my Kato E-9's.

I'm not asking not to convert it.  Go for it.   I just need a couple of photos of a stock chassis.

If you submitted photos to N-Scale Magazine, then you obviously know how to take photos.
I'll private message you my email address if you'd be open to sending a photo- which I will take care of posting for you.
Thanks
Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

Loren Perry

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Re: Anybody here have a brass Kumata EA or E1?
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2013, 11:03:09 PM »
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Ron -

Okay, I'll take some shots of the engine as soon as I can. Both my A and B units are identical internally. I'll just shoot the B unit's innards because I installed a headlight in the A unit and wired it directly to the motor harness so it's not easy to disassemble for a clear photo without risking the wiring. It was not particularly easy to add this headlight because the big gear tower is mounted so far forward it almost interferes with the rear of the light.

If you submitted photos to N-Scale Magazine, then you obviously know how to take photos.
I'll private message you my email address if you'd be open to sending a photo- which I will take care of posting for you.
Thanks

You bet. Yes, I can take photos - it's just posting them on this website that's frustrating me. Go ahead and forward me an e-mail address I can send them to and I'll get them off to you.

u18b

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Re: Anybody here have a brass Kumata EA or E1?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2013, 11:49:34 PM »
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Loren,
B unit is perfectly fine.

In fact, I had the same trouble putting a little tiny micro LED for a headlight in my EA.  Wow, the clearance is tight.

I sent you messages with my email.
Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.