Author Topic: D&H Rocky Mountain Empire (N-Scale) - Design Stage #3  (Read 3016 times)

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Stourbridge Lion

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D&H Rocky Mountain Empire (N-Scale) - Design Stage #3
« on: February 04, 2013, 12:07:52 PM »
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Lisa and I believe we have settled on the ROW in the basement which will include most of the storage room and a portion of the family room as shown in the graph area below. Now before folks again talk about the door, it will still stay in its configuration unless we can turn it into a pocket door that slides to the East. The Fireplace is not used so I can safely place the layout right up against it while keeping it in place for long-term home value. My desk will also be partially underneath the layout. The "Shelf" in the newly designated "Train Room" will be kept in place and kept in use so an isle-way to it will need to be part of the design.



I have completed Plan Concept #3 for your critique that I will be presenting in the posts to come. I have taken into account many of the criticisms from past presentations but overall it's the same high level idea. To help get folks into the vision I put together this diagram of what the West Wall might look like in this Dual-Deck, Multi-Loop Layout...



I again encourage folks to offer their constructive criticism to help me make my vision come alive...

Stourbridge Lion

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Re: D&H Rocky Mountain Empire (N-Scale) - Design Stage #3
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2013, 12:25:11 PM »
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So here is the isle-way I have designed for this conceptual design

Stourbridge Lion

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Re: D&H Rocky Mountain Empire (N-Scale) - Design Stage #3
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2013, 12:38:16 PM »
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Deck #1 - View Blocks / Hidden Access



Now, keep in mind the "West Wall" diagram in the initial post and envision that look going all the way around the edge of the layout space with the visible shelf space being about 12" deep in most places. Within the peninsula area is a hidden area with two different access holes (shown in WHITE). The BLACK 4x4's will be heavy support polls and the GRAY is a new support wall that will also double as a major View Block. The smaller GRAY lines are the other View Blocks that make up the back of the visible shelves. As with the "West Wall" diagram, the base will be completely supported by cabinet style storage space underneath; with the exception being where the "Duck Under" is located. I have also reserved 1" away from the physical walls for supports to attach the storage cabinets to the walls. The WEST and SOUTH walls are concrete foundation walls.

Something I also wanted to point out is as with past designs, Deck #1 is to be my "Tunnel District" and the Eastern most section be a Canyon / River Gouge. So the View Blocks will also double as where the Tunnel Portals will be. To resolve the Access issue in the past designs note again the "West Wall" diagram where I will have side access into these tunnels or will be able to access nearly the rest from the Hidden Access area.

So, for my major critics from the past designs does it appear so far that I have address most/all of the access issues with this design???

Stourbridge Lion

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Re: D&H Rocky Mountain Empire (N-Scale) - Design Stage #3
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2013, 08:46:24 PM »
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Deck #1 - Lower Loop (Freight Mainline)



Here is the Lower Loop of Deck #1 which is the Freight Mainline through the Tunnel District...

Note as with past designs this is based on being "DC" for now and thus my Double Slip / Cross Over has an arrow for planned direction of traffic. This will be where the Lower and Upper Loops will touch

Stourbridge Lion

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Re: D&H Rocky Mountain Empire (N-Scale) - Design Stage #3
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2013, 09:12:16 PM »
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Deck #1 - Lower Loop (Freight Mainline)



I do want to show a little detail of the Upper Right as this section of the Loop will also be mainly Hidden Track with only a portion of the bottom section being exposed . To access the rest will be from below or from the side. Will likely have to add some more support poles to support the Upper Loop (coming soon) but this is to give the concept of the below access.

Any issues with access here?

bdennis

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Re: D&H Rocky Mountain Empire (N-Scale) - Design Stage #3
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2013, 10:35:42 PM »
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As a fellow N scale D&H modeler, I look forward to seeing the progress.
My only concern is access to the underside of each level. Can you access the underside of each level from the cupboards?
How are you going to throw tunouts? Will they be tortoise, or manual?

Will you use a helix to get between levels? What gradient will you set as your max?

Keep the pics coming..
Brendan Dennis
N scale - Delaware & Hudson Champlain Division

Stourbridge Lion

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Re: D&H Rocky Mountain Empire (N-Scale) - Design Stage #3
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2013, 11:05:01 PM »
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Great Questions!

Yes, the cupboards will give me access from both below for wiring and such and from above for lighting.  Currently I am prototyping using Atlas Code 55 but have not settled on exactly what type of track I will go with or the types of turnouts.  The turnouts likely won't get operated that often so manual is an option but I am wide open to input.  I am prototyping with #7 turnouts with the exception of the Double Cross Over / Slip Switch which I used #10

Yes, there is a helix in the design that I will get to after showing the Deck #1 conceptual design but the WHITE Oval you are seeing is the access to it's interior.  The track you are seeing heading towards the bottom of the WHITE Oval are the ramps going Into/Out of the Helix

Missed displaying this on the diagrams:

Minimum Clearance:  2 Inches
Maximum Grade:  2 Percent
Minimum Radii 15.00 Inches

bdennis

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Re: D&H Rocky Mountain Empire (N-Scale) - Design Stage #3
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2013, 12:07:55 AM »
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All sounds good.
The Atlas turnouts need something to hold them in place as they dont have a over centre spring like the Peco and the ME's.

Access under is key for witing etc. If there is not much, then it will be a head ache for ever and a day..

Looking forward to the updates.
Brendan Dennis
N scale - Delaware & Hudson Champlain Division

Stourbridge Lion

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Re: D&H Rocky Mountain Empire (N-Scale) - Design Stage #3
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2013, 08:37:35 PM »
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Deck #1 - Upper Loop (Passenger Mainline)



In the above diagram I have now added the Mainline Upper Loop of Deck #1 in GREEN and the Lower Loop of Deck #1 is still in BLUE. All the Turnouts / Switches are #7 with the exception of the Double Slip / Cross Over (PINK) which are #10. The minimum clearance is 2 inches and the maximum grade is 2 Percent. There is a mixture of curves but the minimum radii is 15.00 inches.



With the Deck #1 bench-work in place, you can now see the Lower Loop return loop is now mostly hidden and the Passenger / City section now showing in the above diagram.

Where the river is at, envision looking down from the top of a canyon over the track just below you to the river farther below and also seeing a track closer to the river on the opposite side of the canyon. One will also be able to look up the canyon from the side...




This last diagram is just to hide all the Hidden Track from view to give everyone a better feel for what Deck #1 would look like to the viewer. Everyplace the track crosses a View Block would be a Tunnel Portal worked into the topography for that diorama

Stourbridge Lion

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Re: D&H Rocky Mountain Empire (N-Scale) - Design Stage #3
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2013, 08:38:20 PM »
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Helix



To complete Deck #1 here is the Quad-Helix to support traffic Up & Down to Deck #2.

The inner most ring uses 15.00 Inch Radii curves and with the straight track and 2" clearance which works out to 1.8% grade. The inner most curve is for the Lower Loop (Freight Traffic) to climb up to Deck #2.

The next ring uses 16.25 Inch Radii with the same straight track and 2" clearance; 1.7% grade. This is the for the Lower Loop as well to handle the downward traffic from Deck #2.

The third ring used 17.50 Inch Radii curves and with the straight track and 2" clearance which works out to 1.6% grade. This ring is for the Upper Loop (Passenger Traffic) to handle the downward traffic from Deck #2.

Finally the outer ring uses 18.75 Inch Radii curves and with the straight track and 2" clearance which works out to 1.5% grade. The outer most curve is for the Upper Loop to climb up to Deck #2.

The Inner most rings reach Deck #1 at a elevation of 43" from the floor and at a elevation of 47" from the floor.

The Outer most rings reach Deck #1 at a elevation of 51" from the floor for both Upward and Downward Traffic.

*******

Looking just outside the Upper Right of the Helix you can see both the Upper and Lower Loops are inside tunnels so I envision that part of the scenery there would need to be a Lift-Out for access

*******

Comments / Concerns?

bdennis

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Re: D&H Rocky Mountain Empire (N-Scale) - Design Stage #3
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2013, 09:01:58 PM »
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Coming along nicely.
Re the helix. Iam i reading it right. It looks loike the upper track exters the helid next to the wall / scenery break and then the lower section enters directly below it.

There needs to be a S curse in there somewhere to get out of the loop on one of the levels.

I cant see it drawn anywhere.

Also, is there a reason why your using #10's for the main line and #7's for the rest? Given your limited space, I would have thought #7's for the main line and #5's for the others. I use Atlas Code 55 for all my track and the #7's work nicely and dont take up too much realestate.
Brendan Dennis
N scale - Delaware & Hudson Champlain Division

LKOrailroad

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Re: D&H Rocky Mountain Empire (N-Scale) - Design Stage #3
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2013, 09:10:26 PM »
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You may find that your track is too close to the front edge and too close to the backdrop as drawn. Just sayin'. Wouldn't want to see any of your locos suffer sudden deceleration syndrome resulting from concrete poison.
Alan

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro

http://www.lkorailroad.com

Stourbridge Lion

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Re: D&H Rocky Mountain Empire (N-Scale) - Design Stage #3
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2013, 10:14:30 PM »
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Coming along nicely.
Re the helix. Iam i reading it right. It looks loike the upper track exters the helid next to the wall / scenery break and then the lower section enters directly below it.

There needs to be a S curse in there somewhere to get out of the loop on one of the levels.

I cant see it drawn anywhere.

Also, is there a reason why your using #10's for the main line and #7's for the rest? Given your limited space, I would have thought #7's for the main line and #5's for the others. I use Atlas Code 55 for all my track and the #7's work nicely and dont take up too much realestate.

I'm not certain why the need for the S curve with the helix; please explain...

The reason (valid?) is based on my roster http://myrailroad.wordpress.com/; mainly the longer Engines and Passenger Cars which is also why I went with a 15" radii minimum too.  The only reason the #10's are there is that they easily prototype the Double Cross / Slip switch; otherwise I would have done all the prototyping using #7 only.  I have not settled on what type of track; only using the Atlas 55 for convenience.  Still, I love to get this type of input so keep it coming!  I have been learning allot with each conceptual design I have worked and building on the knowledge for the next until I think I have the final design.

You may find that your track is too close to the front edge and too close to the backdrop as drawn. Just sayin'. Wouldn't want to see any of your locos suffer sudden deceleration syndrome resulting from concrete poison.

I agree I wouldn't want a derailment to crash down to the floor either.  I was thinking of having a low plexiglass safety barrier along the edge to protect against that.  How far away from the edge do you think I need to go?  It's not that easily seen but there is a 1" (in RED) buffer there between the concrete walls and the backdrop edge so I think I'm good there but please confirm...

LKOrailroad

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Re: D&H Rocky Mountain Empire (N-Scale) - Design Stage #3
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2013, 11:20:12 PM »
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One person's opinion..... trains look unrealistic when running close to the edge mostly because there is little to no scenery space. Leave at least a few inches between track and edge. More is better. On the backdrops you need enough space to place either trees, landform, of building flats. Otherwise there is nothing but blue sky behind the train. That usually doesn't look convincing. Depending on how your lighting is setup you may also get shadows of the train passing along on the backdrop. That spoils the illusion as well.
Alan

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro

http://www.lkorailroad.com

bdennis

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Re: D&H Rocky Mountain Empire (N-Scale) - Design Stage #3
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2013, 11:42:47 PM »
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Re the turnouts.. It comes down to a personal preference. I also run U30c's C628's and some coaches. The #7 (to me) looks fine but again personal preference.

Re the Helix. The way i read the diagram is that both the top and bottom level enter the helix at the same place on the layout next to the view block, just at a differewnt vertical height. If I am reading that correctly then the train will enter and go around the helix anti clockwise, until it reaches the next level. Then it needs to exit the helix. However, the way the drawing is shown, I would expect to see the track exiting the helix on the level next to the isle of the layout and not against the internal wall / view block.

or is there a level missing from the pictures.

I see the blue track as the lower section and the Green as the upper section.
If this is correct, why do you need 4 tracks in the helix. I would think you only need 2. This would then connect the Green to the Blue.

Regards
Brendan.
http://dh2ndsub.blogspot.com.au/
Brendan Dennis
N scale - Delaware & Hudson Champlain Division