Author Topic: Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountain  (Read 2974 times)

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Norway2112

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Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountain
« on: January 26, 2013, 10:18:39 PM »
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I consider this engine to be one of the really good running good pulling steamers right out of the box, so with that I wanted to find some prototype information.  From what I have found there were only 15 ever made, 5 for the C&O (which Spectrum represents fairly well) and then the other 10 were built for the N&W.  None of the pictures I found of the N&W engines look like the Spectrum engine, so I'm curious as to what they based their model off of?  Maybe its completely fictitious, does anyone else have any insight?

SkipGear

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Re: Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountain
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2013, 12:24:38 AM »
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The Bachmann model represents the N&W K2 and K2a but comes with the wrong tender. As delivered they had standard USRA tenders. Longer tenders were added later by N&W but they were not USRA type from what I know.

K2's were #116-125 built by Alco
K2a's were #126-137 build by Baldwin

K2 #121 as built - http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?//march99/03-21-99/ns759.jpg
K2a #128 w/N&W Long Tender - http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?//april99/04-07-99/ns765.jpg

With a tender swap, the loco is a pretty good representation. A tender from a Walthers Y-3 works well for the long tender, a stock USRA standard from Bachmann will work for the as built version.

Another tender variation - http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?//april99/04-07-99/ns767.jpg
They even got streamlined to match the J class - http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?//april99/04-07-99/ns766.jpg

Now the problem is, getting Bachmann to run a new batch of them. The C&O and N&W versions were gone within a month or so of the release.  The problem was the IC version hung on forever and they won't re-run till those are gone.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 12:42:35 AM by SkipGear »
Tony Hines

Norway2112

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Re: Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountain
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2013, 12:49:17 AM »
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Wouldn't it be awesome if they would adapt the J Class shell to make it slightly shorter and fit the Heavy Mountain mechanism, then throw the J Class tender behind it and sell that version.  It wouldn't require much compared to tooling a whole new engine.  I have some of the afore mentioned parts, I might have to try this...

Cajonpassfan

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Re: Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountain
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2013, 11:54:45 AM »
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Actually, the Bachmann engine lends itself to modeling other roads as well. There were 52 USRA 4-8-2 Heavies built, including 23 copies built by Alco for Florida East Coast. These had 73" drivers. When FEC defaulted on payments, these engines ended up on Western Pacific, Cotton Belt, Western of Alabama, Atlantic Coast Line and NdeM.  Central Vermont also had similar copies. As typical with steam power, most roads customized them to conform to their individual practices as to feed water heaters, headlights, tenders, sand dome locations etc., but the Bachmann engine is a good start and I hope Bmann decides to rerun them....they are excellent models. I only wish Bachmann would do a better job on the drivers, but that's another topic....
Regards, Otto K.

Mark5

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Re: Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountain
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2013, 12:10:18 PM »
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The Bachmann model represents the N&W K2 and K2a but comes with the wrong tender. As delivered they had standard USRA tenders. Longer tenders were added later by N&W but they were not USRA type from what I know.

K2's were #116-125 built by Alco
K2a's were #126-137 build by Baldwin

K2 #121 as built - http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?//march99/03-21-99/ns759.jpg
K2a #128 w/N&W Long Tender - http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?//april99/04-07-99/ns765.jpg

With a tender swap, the loco is a pretty good representation. A tender from a Walthers Y-3 works well for the long tender, a stock USRA standard from Bachmann will work for the as built version.

For the as built version, the USRA standard tender that Bachman sold separately has incorrect trucks. :P I think the one sold with the light Mountain has the right trucks. They don't make it easy!

Mark

squirrelhunter

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Re: Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountain
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2013, 12:43:48 PM »
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Actually the FEC had three distinct groups of 4-8-2's. The last 20 were exact copies of the USRA heavy mountain with 69" drivers. The FEC engines with 73" drivers that were sold off were of a smaller design that was a bit smaller than the USRA light mountain. Their first group of 4-8-2's had 68" drivers and were even smaller.

Cajonpassfan

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Re: Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountain
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2013, 02:01:54 PM »
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. The FEC engines with 73" drivers that were sold off were of a smaller design that was a bit smaller than the USRA light mountain.

Agreed, the boilers were a bit lighter, but their wheelbase was actually a bit longer and their weight pretty close, at least according to Westcott's Cyclopedia. My point, in response to the original post, was that three were many more than the 15 engines noted to give us a good starting point for a number of other models.
Regards, Otto K.

squirrelhunter

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Re: Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountain
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2013, 11:20:15 PM »
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I understand Cajonpassfan. I think that the best starting point for model of the FEC Heavy Mountain copies would be to use a stock Bachmann Heavy Mountain. However, if you want to model their earlier classes of Mountains, the Bmann Light Mountain is probably a better starting point- although I think the first batch with the 68" drivers was small enough (like the 1st C&O and MP ones) that even using the Light Mountain would result in a engine proportionally too big when compared to the later classes.

For anyone looking for ideas on modeling 4-8-2's of any road, I recommend getting a copy of the the Ferrell/Pearsall book The Mountains, which has at least one photo of every class of 4-8-2 on the continent.

For FEC engines in particular, you should get a copy of Speedway to Sunshine by Bramson. A good number of FEC steam photos in there. Also the Denver Public library has some Otto Perry roster shots of FEC 4-8-2s you can search online.

SkipGear

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Re: Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountain
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2013, 12:18:02 AM »
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I understand Cajonpassfan. I think that the best starting point for model of the FEC Heavy Mountain copies would be to use a stock Bachmann Heavy Mountain. However, if you want to model their earlier classes of Mountains, the Bmann Light Mountain is probably a better starting point- although I think the first batch with the 68" drivers was small enough (like the 1st C&O and MP ones) that even using the Light Mountain would result in a engine proportionally too big when compared to the later classes.

For anyone looking for ideas on modeling 4-8-2's of any road, I recommend getting a copy of the the Ferrell/Pearsall book The Mountains, which has at least one photo of every class of 4-8-2 on the continent.

For FEC engines in particular, you should get a copy of Speedway to Sunshine by Bramson. A good number of FEC steam photos in there. Also the Denver Public library has some Otto Perry roster shots of FEC 4-8-2s you can search online.

Do you realize that the Heavy and Light Mountain both have the same driver size and wheelbase? The measured driver size at the wheel is around 63" and 69" at the flange. They represent 69" drivers because the flanges would interphere with each other if they used a 69" tire size. The two models use different frames but that is only because of the change in where the DCC was to be mounted. they eliminated the pocket in the frame and changed the motor mount to accomodate the current can motor instead of the older open frame motor.
Tony Hines

Nato

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Re: Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountain
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2013, 01:54:20 AM »
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 :|                The Denver & Rio Grande Western bought 4 N&W 4-8-2 locomotives during WW II to supplument their own 4-8-2 fleet. Bachmann offers their 4-8-2 lettered for Rio Grande,but they numbered their model for one of the Grand's similer locomotives,not a War tIme engine. Nate Goodman (Nato).Salt Lake, Utah.

Mark5

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Re: Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountain
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2013, 07:51:33 AM »
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:|                The Denver & Rio Grande Western bought 4 N&W 4-8-2 locomotives during WW II to supplument their own 4-8-2 fleet. Bachmann offers their 4-8-2 lettered for Rio Grande,but they numbered their model for one of the Grand's similer locomotives,not a War tIme engine. Nate Goodman (Nato).Salt Lake, Utah.

The N&W Mountains that D&RGW bought were not USRA designs.

squirrelhunter

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Re: Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountain
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2013, 10:04:23 PM »
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Skipgear- I know the Bachmann light and Heavy engines have the same wheelbase, and drivers. But the FEC "light" 4-8-2's have a much smaller boiler than the URSA heavy copies did. So I wouldn't see the point in starting with a heavy 4-8-2 if you wanted to model one of the smaller classes- you'd have to swap shells (Actually, can the shells directly swap between the Bachmann 4-8-2's? I have never tried).

Another road that had reasonably close copies of USRA heavy 4-8-2's not mentioned yet was the Lackawanna.

Nato

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Re: Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountain
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2013, 02:16:08 PM »
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 :|              The Rio Grande locomotives purchased from N&W were class M69. The Bachmann model is numbered for one of these wartime locos not an original Rio Grande locomotive. I never implyed that the  N&W locomotives were USRA only later  N&W  in house build that copied many features of the USRA design. Nate Goodman (Nato).

SkipGear

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Re: Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountain
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2013, 06:29:36 PM »
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Squirrelhunter - Sorry, I was more thinking about driver dia. and spacing at the time because of your comment about the 73" drivered versions being small when the USRA Mountains both had 69" drivers.
Tony Hines

Mark5

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Re: Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountain
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2013, 08:12:08 PM »
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:|              The Rio Grande locomotives purchased from N&W were class M69. The Bachmann model is numbered for one of these wartime locos not an original Rio Grande locomotive. I never implyed that the  N&W locomotives were USRA only later  N&W  in house build that copied many features of the USRA design. Nate Goodman (Nato).

The 4-8-2s that N&W sold were class K-3 and definately not USRA designs. These were the probably the heaviest mountains ever built - significantly different from the K2 (USRA) and K2a (USRA copy) classes. The K3s had 63" drivers and a huge boiler:

http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns773.jpeg

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/mountain/?page=nw

Mark
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 08:22:45 PM by Mark5 »