Atlas PS-1 boxcars in hand! (INNER HEIGHT CLARIFICATION)

[wcfn100]

I think silver is correct, but you should really see it to make a decision on the car.

'Silver' is to white what 'imitation gold' is to yellow.  Basically any weathering makes the color difference moot or 'moo', like a cow's opinion (anyone?).

Just my 2¢.

Jason

[Cory Rothlisberger]

A question for Cory:

On the Atlas website (Oct. 5, 2012 announcement), the 2nd release WP cars (50 001 161 (WP 20821) and 50 001 162 (WP 21223)) are listed as being brown, black & white, with the white presumably being the lettering as shown in the artwork.  A posting in the fourth message down the page on this link http://www.zcentralstation.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=4&id=9607&Itemid=212, which was sent to me a couple of days ago by Jason (wcfn100), includes a quote from noted freight car historian Jim Eager indicating that these cars (series 20821 - 21400) were lettered in silver with a black and silver herald.

Would you please confirm whether these cars will be lettered in white or silver?  I can accept that white may be correct but if, indeed, they are being lettered in white could you please provide a reference to convince me why I should accept the contradiction of information from a historian I trust and order the pair from my dealer?

Thanks,

Looks like Jimmy was right. Digging through the WP Color Guide, there are several references of that paint scheme being inspired by the Zephyr, thus the all silver lettering. I'll get that change done up today...

[PGE_Modeller]

Looks like Jimmy was right. Digging through the WP Color Guide, there are several references of that paint scheme being inspired by the Zephyr, thus the all silver lettering. I'll get that change done up today...

Thanks, Cory.

I'll place an order for both cars with my LHS.

Cheers,

[Mark5]

40 years ago Kadee came out with a PS-1, here's old and new (both no mods):

[Chris333]

MTL the Pinto of N scale. 

[robert3985]

40 years ago Kadee came out with a PS-1, here's old and new (both no mods):

Saw and compared the same two cars at Nate's (Nato) today.  "Compared" is overly optimistic.  The MTL car looks like a toy...the Atlas car obviously has raised the bar again.  Way to go Atlas!

[MichaelWinicki]

Back in the day the MT car was considered the "Rolls Royce".

My friend and I got into N-scale in the mid-70's and aspired to have a complete fleet of Kadee cars.

MT knows things have changed and will respond accordingly I'm sure.

[DKS]

...The MTL car looks like a toy...

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but I'd say this is more toylike:



The MTL car is pretty darned good for ~40-year-old tooling, but it's being eclipsed by twenty-first century products.

[Sokramiketes]

The MTL car is pretty darned good for ~40-year-old tooling, but it's being eclipsed by twenty-first century products.

And they've had every opportunity to upgrade it and keep the market for PS-1's.

[DKS]

And they've had every opportunity to upgrade it and keep the market for PS-1's.

Obviously they've perceived no need to do so; otherwise, they would have already. As I see it, their core market is not the minuscule subset of proto modelers represented here, so I can't imagine them investing in complete re-tooling anytime soon.

[Sokramiketes]

Obviously they've perceived no need to do so; otherwise, they would have already. As I see it, their core market is not the minuscule subset of proto modelers represented here, so I can't imagine them investing in complete re-tooling anytime soon.

We've been around the block on this one many times.  I never said "complete retool".  And MTL has already hinted that stuff like body mounted couplers are coming to existing rolling stock. Once you retool an underframe for a coupler box, it makes sense to adjust the ride height.  That would go a long way to making the PS-1 tooling viable for another bunch of years.

MTL has not been progressive fast enough and has been sitting back watching sales fall off as the market gets flooded with better products.  And no, apparently they haven't perceived the need.

[bbussey]

The one significant point I'm amazed at is, with all of the prototype modelers among us over the decades - we knew the model was flawed regarding fidelity to the prototype in certain details, but we never realized to what extent.  We knew the car sat too high for example, but we didn't realize how far off the inner-height was and how much that compounded the situation.  We knew the door width was incorrect and assumed the height was as well because the bottom door guide is too high, and now it turns out that the door height is fairly accurate.

Yes, the tooling from a quality standpoint is more than pretty darned good.  It was the most crisp and most fine in detail for most of those forty years.  But RivaRossi proved with a number of models over forty years ago that it was possible then to design models that were faithful to the prototype, so it stands to reason that Kadee could have been more accurate as well.  When I was collecting up until the end of the last century, I had just about every 20000-series model that Kadee/MTL had produced, and I ended up auctioning most of them off when the collecting aspect of the hobby got too expensive to maintain.  I've slowly been unloading the 20000-series cars and variants from my layout roster of foob schemes when more accurate models have been introduced (the ESM XIH "State of Maine" boxcars for example).  But now, I'll be retiring the last 33 cars on my roster (a third of which are New Haven cars and will be gone by next summer) and either replacing them with more accurate Atlas cars as they are released ... or not, as this presents an excellent opportunity to prune the fleet.  The only MTL/Kadee 20000-series cars I'll definitely hold onto are the Model Railroader 40th anniversary car from 1974, and the three Metropolitan club cars since I designed two of them.

Agreed, the core market of MTL is not the prototype modeler subset.  However, neither is the core market of Atlas.  The Atlas model is more accurate, more intricately detailed, painted/printed better, is more readily available, and marketed at a lower MSRP.  It isn't going to appeal to just the prototype modelers, and it will take a significant bite out of the 20000-series market.  Since that tooling is long ago paid for, what I would do if I was in Oregon is develop a new 40' steel boxcar single-sliding-door model based on a prototype not yet replicated and make it as accurate as possible.

[bbussey]

... MTL has already hinted that stuff like body mounted couplers are coming to existing rolling stock. Once you retool an underframe for a coupler box, it makes sense to adjust the ride height.  That would go a long way to making the PS-1 tooling viable for another bunch of years...

I definitely shared this mindset, up until the Atlas car was released.  Now, I no longer see how lowering the model and adding body-mounts are enough to keep the model viable.

[DKS]

I definitely shared this mindset, up until the Atlas car was released.  Now, I no longer see how lowering the model and adding body-mounts are enough to keep the model viable.

Agreed. Hence my comment on retooling. Or, as Bryan recommended, making something else. Except...

Since that tooling is long ago paid for, what I would do if I was in Oregon is develop a new 40' steel boxcar single-sliding-door model based on a prototype not yet replicated and make it as accurate as possible.

I question their ability to do so, given this.

[bbussey]

They are capable.  It's just that the employees proofing the tooling (or technically, the digital model) need to pay more attention.  They also need to start rendering rapid prototypes prior to tooling so that they can be tested in operation as well as catch any flaws that may be more apparent when looking at a 3D model in-hand.  I always get RPs rendered first to see how they look and how they track.  It costs only a couple hundred at most to take that step, as opposed to the thousands to make tooling modifications (whether subcontracting the die work, or the expended labor in-house).