Kato GS-4 ?

[victor miranda]

hmmmm....
you say you oil the axle bearigs and the electrical pick-up gets worse.
I can believe that.  oddly enough I'd come to a differnt conclusion.
something like; the tenderpick-ups are not working.

so back to why I recommended lubricating the chassis...
electrical pick-ups can cause curve iniatiated stalling
if lubricating causes stalling on a Kato gs4,
you may well have more than one issue to resolve.

the issues that lubrication solve are various chassis binding.
lube will aid in discovering where the proper fix is found
be it axle bearing grooves or siderod pinches or electrical pick-ups.
Lubrication will do no harm so it is the place to start.

victor

[Flagler]

I don't know if these test results will help solve the problem with the engine that gets a little jerky,however i will explain.
I took the DCC EM-13 decoder out and reinstalled the factory DC chip.The problem did not go away.Let me explain what I did notice.
I use the Kato Blue railer to rail the GS4.I put the tender on and slide it down untill the lights come on.I then will use track power to rail the engine down the railer untill all the wheels are on the track.Because I was using the analog with my DCC system the nice little buzz
indicates that you are getting track power to the motor.the engine stoped buzzing after moving part way down the railer.This would indicate a drawbar short,I could get the buzzing to start and stop by just touching the Tender very gently in many locations,this did not add up.I could also get the buzzing to start and stop by touching the boiler or cab ever so gently in many locations.The draw bar was not moving with any of these touches.Is this engine grounded some how and when I toched it it become grounded or not.Most Baffling

[superturbine]

Still sounds like an upper draw bar problem to me.  Remember the lower drawbar transfers engine power to the tender then the upper drawbar transfers power from both to the motor.  Which is likely the reason you can touch either the enginw or tender and interupt motor power.

[victor miranda]

I agree with superturbine that the upper drawbar contacts are the suspect.
that does not mean other problems do not exist.

Look to be sure the upper DB contacts are in the correct position and that you see no lint.
wipe them clean and use conductalube if you have it.
if that is no solution,  then check  the front truck of the tender the axle points and contacts
and then the rear tender truck.

victor

[Flagler]

The engine will run without stoping for hours,its just does not run as well as my other GS4's.I really dont know what to look for or even fix with the draw bar.I guess I should be happy that it runs.Its strange that just touching the engine causes the short however so quick to go away.Its got to be some other problem then the draw bar connection.Is the electrical system some how grounded.I think this might be were a short is and when I touch the engine it becomes grounded again

[victor miranda]

Hi Flagler,

if the problem were a solid break you could fix it easily.
intermittant problems cause hair removal.

I have to ask because I am not sure what you meant
by a short you are thinking that something is not making a proper contact?

the symptoms you describe are all what happens when you have any pick-up problems.
the gs-4 has 4 more contact areas where most locos have insulated wires if anything.
they add to the places to check.

it is as simple as cleaning and inspection of each contact point.
the motor tabs to frme halves, axle and cone points, truck tabs to tender contacts.
the reason to check the drawbar first is because how reliable axle point pick-ups are.

Luck.

victor

[peteski]

Flagler,
I suspect that you aren't familiar with electrical terms and your descriptions are confusing.

If something in the engine was "shorting"  then that short would trip the circuit breaker (overload protector) of the power source you're using (a DC throttle or a DCC booster).  From your description I suspect that you mean to say "open" not "short".  You might not think much of whether to use the word "short" or "open" do describe some electrical problem but the difference between those words is huge! Those are exactly opposite. 

If the circuit opens between the motor and the rails, that will not trip any circuit breakers (since the loco is actually using less current) and the motor will stop buzzing as it is no longer receiving any electricity.

You also keep mentioning "grounding". There is not "ground here.  Usually ground describes a common electrical connection. But in a N scale locomotive there is only positive and negative polarity (no common ground).  Again, what you describe sounds to me like an open circuit. When you touch the model, the pressure re-established the connection between whichever metal pieces lost contact so the loco starts working again.

Your problem seems to remind me of a problem I had with my AFT GS-4. The wheel blackening (only on the locomotive's wheels) somehow became non-conductive and since the loco was only picking power up through the tender (passed to the motor through the drawbar), it started running very poorly.  It would stutter and slow down through curves.  I spoke to Kelly at Kato and he took the loco back and exchanged it for a new unit.  Well, the new one had the same problem!

At that point I decided to clean the black coating from he locos threads. I actually posted the procedure on the Atlas forum but I'm afraid that the forum had been shut down for good so that post is lost.   I took the motor and worm out (to have the drivers free-rolling) then I uses a wire brush in a Dremel tool. I placed the wire brush against the driver's threads (Dremel set for slow speed) and it cleaned the threads while rotating the driver wheels.  I was using my finger to limit the rotation speed of the drivers while they were being cleaned by the wire brush.

If you can, attach 2 test leads to your power source then while the loco is cradled upside down touch the test leads to the drivers (and to the tender wheels), one set at a time to see if the power gets to the motor.  That procedure should narrow down the problem.

[Flagler]

Thanks Petskey .its not a pickup problem at all. Maybe someting is re routing the electric current away from the motor

[victor miranda]

hi flagler,
I re-read your post and I think a short is possible from your description.

you do need to determine for sure if that is the case.
keep in mind that DCC locos cause a lot of problems when they short
and so I certainly have not been thinking Short.

the best way to determine a short on DC is to put a lamp on the track with
the loco. tha lamp should stay lit while you run the loco onto the track.
sudden out is a short and sudden bright is a contact failure.

back when these locos were new under some circumstances
the rear driver would contact the motor/frame and toast the decoder.

I can't think this is the case here so I am tending to think you have a disconnect somewhere.

victor

[peteski]

Thanks Petskey .its not a pickup problem at all. Maybe someting is re routing the electric current away from the motor

Rerouting to where?    The only other item which can consume current in that loco is the headlight circuit board (which is hardwired to the chassis halves).

If the loco slows down (without you changing the throttle setting) that indicates extra resistance.  That can be mechanical resistance (as in increased friction in the mechanism) or electrical resistance (possibly where the drawbar conductors contact the loco chassis or tender pickup plates.)

[OHCR 4218]

It depends on the lube you are using. Atlas Electrolube (AreoCar Conductalube) is about all I use for N scale lubrication and contrary to popular belief, it does improve electrical contact. Most oils are too heavy for N scale use, including Labell.

I have been using Labell oils on my Kato Dash 9s and SD40-2s for years. They run at the club for a few hours a week, all day when we do train showsand for a solid week of 12 hour days at the fair each year. I've never seen any isues with them. Is there a reason you think it's too heavy?

Brandon

[peteski]

... Is there a reason you think it's too heavy?

Brandon

I was wondering the same thing. I have a full set of lubes from Woodland Scenics.  That includes ultra-light oil and light oil. To me the ultra-light oil seems to be too thin (even for motor bearings). It is so thin that it seems to have a tendency to creep out of the areas where I applied it.  I usually end up using the light oil for most of the rotating shafts in the locomotive.  I don't have any Labelle oils but when I service locos at my friend's house he has them and whichever type it is, it seems to be quite free flowing (or in other words: thin enough for N scale).

[Flagler]

I plan on inspecting the draw bar today, I don't know if I will be able to detect this problem,but maybe by giving a tweek here and there  will result in a correction or worse. Maybe the light board is causing the poblem some how.

[Flagler]

I am 99% sure the problem is with the draw bar,and its of the Hair pulling intermintent type of conductive problem.

[Flagler]

One of my GS4 engines was not running as well as it should.I had never oiled anypart of it.I took the chance and applied a little oil
It is running smoothe and quite.