Cisco Bridges: a new layout concept

[Scottl]

A little insight into my thinking as I try to develop this next phase of this layout.  Here is a view of the canvas- about 10' of undeveloped layout that is currently my yard.  It is all crammed into the furnace room in my basement.



Imagine this will all the existing track removed!  My idea is to have five staging tracks at the back, as laid out crudely here along the backdrop with some scrap track.  The track spacing is a bit tight and can be widened, but where the rest of the track currently lies is where the canyon scene with the mainline will be located.  Arm reach to the staging track is good throughout, especially when I stand on a chair, so I think I can manage to keep it isolated by a scenic divide of the canyon wall.   In playing around with things, I might even be able to bring the benchwork edge out a few inches and still have good access to staging.  I don't expect to access it often, just to fix occasional derailments.  I'll run the train out onto the mainline to add/remove cars. 



Now some challenges:  backdrop, foreground, and sight lines.  I've put in a piece of fiberboard that is 24" high to give a sense of what is possible.  After suffering with a too-short backdrop in the Cisco scene, I would like to install a higher backdrop in the new scenes.  I don't think I can cover the window (this is a basement room) but I have an area where I can put as much as 32" of backdrop above the track level, which will really give great scenic potential.  Will it look OK to have a sudden rise in the backdrop after the window?  Is that too much backdrop?  I was also thinking about how I might use the separation between the canyon walls and the backdrop (due to the staging) as a means to enhance the feeling of depth.  I have some ideas, like putting some shelf brackets above the staging and putting in some movable scenic elements made of foam so they can be easily removed to access the trains.  It seems a bit much but might work... 

Next is the foreground.  Scenery is king here, so I don't want the track too close to the benchwork edge so I get natural foreground in the scenes.  This won't always be possible, but I think I can keep the canyon wall "narrow" and leave about 8-10" for the foreground with the river and in some locations the other bank.  In the curve coming off of the duck-under (right side in the first picture) I think I will have enough room for some cosmetic CP trackage on the foreground bank to look something like this:



Sight lines are more challenging right now.  Trains only run one direction here (counter-clockwise around the layout) so I want to consider this from the perspective of the visuals to keep the scenes looking natural and not forced.  I need to think about this more and  I might make a scale model to try some of this out before committing to construction.  This is visually what I am aiming for:



Anyway, it is fun to think about these things!  Any thoughts, feedback or concerns about this plan are most welcome.

[Scottl]

Thanks Otto, that is really helpful.  More to chew over!

[GaryHinshaw]

I love the shot showing the talus under the bridge piers.  Leave it to a geographer to nail that effect. 

I think your staging plan sounds entirely feasible, and it definitely makes sense to set up the access with routes/macros.  I'm not familiar with NCE's tools (but Otto clearly is).  If that turns out to be problematic (doubtful), there are many other ways to achieve it as well. 

I'm a bit unclear where do you plan to start the Thompson scene, right after the duck-under?  I don't quite see how the curves work with this, but I trust that you do.  It's a very cool stretch of railroad!

[Scottl]

Thanks!  The secret is taking all the plaster scraps and smashing them with a hammer in a bag to get debris.  I then sieve it with a few screens to get powder, fine and coarse mixes.  The angularity of the the material is perfect for this type of slope and other uses. 

I think most of the Thompson scene will be in the location where the current yard is now.  I have not mapped it out yet but I want a relatively straight section of track to get the successive tunnels and rock sheds.  The curve after the duck under may just be more generic canyon, but I will see what I can find on the prototype.  I did see one location in December where they pile rock debris and maintenance supplies on a small landing next to the track that might make an interesting scene.

[GaryHinshaw]

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=557207&nseq=1

Go all out. 

[Scottl]

You're evil

[Scottl]

Sober second thoughts.  Black canyon would be a fun build and would fit the corner pretty well I suspect.  The problem is that scene leaves the CN line on the east bank so I would have a tough time getting the river back to the west bank for Skoonka Tunnels.  In fact, I'm not quite sure how the prototype does it, pictures of the bridge a few miles downstream are not easy to find.  Even if I figure that out, it pretty much leaves no space for Skoonka...  Still, Black Canyon would be a real challenge- the rock is very distinctive and interesting.

Update:  finally found a picture of the bridge downstream at Basque.  Not a very compact bridge to model   https://i.ytimg.com/vi/r0BHnrjueQU/maxresdefault.jpg

[GaryHinshaw]

Do you have any higher-angle shots of your space, or a sketch of the current track arrangement, so we can see what we're up against, space-wise?  I'm thinking that you shouldn't worry about the transition, since you need to hide the staging entrance back around that corner too.  Just think of it as 3 separate vignettes with defined separations.

[Scottl]

This is all I have- the original plan from 2012 (squares are 1').  You can see how much I deviated in the Cisco scene.



Black Canyon would definitely fit, but the river is awkward to deal with.

[GaryHinshaw]

Here's the photo angle I was looking for:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=464974



The bluff where the locos are hides the entrance to staging and you can cross the river again on the sly and emerge on the west bank in time for the Skoonka scene.  Just ignore (or pay lip service to) the CP tracks.

[Scottl]

I was thinking of rotating those elements about 30 degrees counter clockwise to get the best view of the bridge crossing.  I'm still trying to get my head around the second crossing back to the west bank.  Hiding the staging access is also a key concern with this.  I really need to get my version of 3rdplanit running, but it is 16 years out of date    Might need to try something else.

[Santa Fe Guy]

Great idea Scott.
Rod.

[Puddington]

You're evil

He truly is...... yesh!

[sp org div]

Nice work on that Cisco section...
but, I really wish you had a bigger room.   

Jeff

[basementcalling]

Nice work on that Cisco section...
but, I really wish you had a bigger room.   

Jeff

After building that bridge, what's a room extension? Just knock out a few walls and you're good to go Black Canyon expansion of the layout.