Cisco Bridges: a new layout concept

[Santa Fe Guy]

Hi Scott.
That scene is looking damned impressive. I know what you mean with the colour of the river changing.
Helen and I had the pleasure of riding the Rocky Mountaineer some years back and I could easily see the two colours as the rivers met.
When we did the TRC I painted the river a Tamiya Deep Green and mixed in some tan to dull it down even more.
Keep up the great work.
Rod.

[Donald Jacques]

Hey, Scott...you continue to impress!!!   You start by saying you've had a busy week then show all this work that you have accomplished during your busy week!  Do you ever find time to sleep?

You are right about water colour changes with not only the seasons, but weekly depending on the weather during any one week.  I lived waterfront on the Fraser River for 31 years...the colour variations we saw were incredible.  When the river was in flood and we were sandbagging to slow erosion of our front lawn(!!!), a bag accidentally dropped in two feet of water would be lost to sight!!  A light murky brown, sort of a tan-brown hue, was the norm in high water.  We were upstream from the confluence of the Fraser with the Thompson.  The Thompson always seemed to run nearly transparent glacial green so its merging affect on the muddy Fraser was to create a clear band on the East side with the wider brown band on the West side for up to several kilometers below the town of Lytton.  By the time the waters reached Cisco, they were pretty much mixed so adding some glacial-green would be appropriate.

Thanks to your postings to the forum, I have finally got underway on constuction of the Cisco bridges!!  I have 14 bents constructed for the CN bridge and will leave the center span bent(s) until supplies arrive at my LHS.  Unfortunately, working in brass is beyond my abilities so this bridge will be made mostly of styrene and Basswood.

Keep up the great work!

Don

[Donald Jacques]

 Say, speaking of the Cisco bridges, has anyone seen plans for the CP bridge built in 1910?  It consist of three spans, two short Pratt Truss spans at each end of the central Parker Truss span.  I have not found any kits available, so I will have to get out the styrene and Basswood again...! 

Don

[Scottl]

Thanks Don.  The Fraser River in flood is a mighty thing- sandbagging would be a desperate thing... 

The CP bridge is still standing and it was moved to Vancouver Island.  There are plans out there somewhere:  Craigolio is building a version of it and has assembled a great wealth of resources.  I'm doing the brass etchings for him, so a second set is easier (and makes it cheaper for everyone!).

I was at the cabin today burning some wood and working, but in my spare time I was doodling the next scenic section I have to deal with.  It will be the Skoonka Tunnels, a neat stretch of sheds, tunnels and the Thompson River, not far upstream of Lytton.  You can see that nice glacial-green water because there are large lakes upstream that trap most of the sediment, while the Fraser River is actively eroding into the valley and picking up mud.  Here is a good perspective picture of what I want to do (not mine):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/37373154@N08/9942069566/

I'll do some parts of it, but I don't have room for the full stretch.  You will notice there is swinging bridge to the tunnel that is used for access by CN maintenance.  This forum has some great photos of it about half way down the page:

http://ferriesbc.proboards.com/thread/4038/bridges-tunnels-photos-discussion?page=6

I'm going to do it in brass etches so I can get the super-delicate look to it.  I'm looking forward to the challenge.

Lots to do in the meantime, but I'll be working towards this and probably start it in the fall.

[Donald Jacques]

Hi Scott:

Thanks for the two sites.  I will have a look.   

The CP bridge that I am seeking plans for is the current (1910) bridge...does that mean it's 104 yrs old...yikes...hope they are maintaining it better than the CN has been doing with theirs!  The original 1883 bridge was dismantled in sections and taken to Southern Vancouver Island and reassembled...I assume its on the E&N line, but perhaps not.

Let me know if we are talking about the same bridge...perhaps a group order for the brass could make it much more affordable for ALL OF US!!!  Lead on, MacScott!

Re sandbagging the Fraser, it was a losing cause...many truckloads of rip rap did a better, more permanent job.

Don

[Scottl]

Hi Don,

Wrong CP bridge!  I have not seen any kind of plans for the current CP bridge, but it looked to me like it was doable.  I contemplated the new BLMA brass bridge as a stand in for the middle section, and Central Valley truss bridges cut to size for the two approach sections.  Believe me when I say that the BLMA assembled brass bridges are good value for the dollar!

Scott

[Donald Jacques]

Hi Scott!

Yes, the BLMA bridges look great!  Their longest is too short for the Cisco crossing but if one were put in place on a layout, few would notice the span length....except the true railfans!   

Don

[Scottl]

Selective compression!

[GaryHinshaw]

Just to clarify, the river is not painted, but there is a test patch to look at, marked here with the arrow.  Opinions?

Magnificent progress Scott! 

Since you asked for opinions, I'll offer some with the caveat that your photo may or may not convey what it looks like in person, so take them with a grain of salt.  I'll also base them off of one prototype photo (which is also problematic):

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=505002&nseq=1

* I think the rock outcroppings in the foreground could be made darker/greyer, and the eroding section in the background could be lighter/tanner than they appear to be in the model photo.  The contrast between the two is quite pronounced in the proto photo.

* The colour sample of the water in your photo seems way too light to me, but this is tricky.  In the proto shot, the colour depends significantly on what is being reflected (e.g., trees or sky).  I would be tempted to try a much darker grey/green base colour then go with a heavy gloss overcoat.  Mark's Kootenay River scene is almost black, with a heavy gloss, and it looks really effective in person, and in photos, e.g.:

https://flic.kr/p/oSfAhJ
https://flic.kr/p/bC8Nc3
https://flic.kr/p/ek52RF
https://flic.kr/p/bQo8st

The last shot shows pretty well how reflections play out over a large area in a glossy model river.  But the Fraser is a different river so YMMV.  I would recommend that you get a few scrap boards that you could slide in place in the canyon and try out a few treatments all the way to the final surface treatment you plan to use, then live with them for a bit and see what you like.

Really shaping up to be a killer scene!

[Scottl]

Hi Gary,

Thanks for the comments.  I agree, the rock needs more tint and that sediment section is not quite there yet.  The sediment can be dusted with more tan grout to bring out the lightness and it still needs shrubs and a few small trees in some parts.

Some of the rock is over exposed by the lighting directed from the perspective of the camera-left, but more black is needed overall.  I keep soaking these rocks with a black wash and they are getting progressively darker.  In past layouts I painted the rocks (ala Mike Dannemann) but found the result too uniform.  Staining with washes is more effective for subtle color variations, but the rock at Cisco is quite dark and needs a lot of pigment.  I might try less dilute wash too.

Mark's river photos are quite convincing that a gloss coat may work here.  The color in the Fraser River on the other hand is really variable.  Your example photo is from September at low flow time where you can see a lot of the bridge erosion control concrete structure and much more of the bank.  The river has a distinctive green cast to it at that time of the year and through the winter. 

I was aiming more for the spring runoff with higher flow and a dirtier river, something like this shot from May:  http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=346633  That river color is tough to mix- it definitely has some reflections of the surrounding forested hills and there is the refraction from the fine sediment in the water, but it is overwhelmed by the amount of sediment to give a more muddy overall color. My version in the test section still looks a bit light to my eye.

I do think your advice to paint up a stand in surface and try it for some time is a great idea.  I am reluctant to paint the river until I am comfortable with the color, and it is one of the last things I want to do since spills and overflows from the slopes all pool down there.

[Scottl]

I've spent much of the last week or two with a batch of IM grain car kits for a friend and finishing a dozen or so containers in schemes that are not readily available (Yang Ming, MSc, Hapaeg Lloyd, etc.).  Before I shipped out the grain cars, I posed a few on the layout, along with my second new Kato ES44AC.  This is the kind of golden shot I envisioned at the beginning, with train on each of the CN and CP mainlines.



Here is shot of the other bank trying to think about what kind of temporary backdrop I will need for this kind of shot.  A forested slope is likely, but perspective is tricky with the CP track leaving as it is.



Railings are the last detail for the bridge and should come at some point.  I want to bake on the primer to the brass, so proceeding with caution.

Working on trees and have about 150 wire armatures done now, just need a break in the weather to spray glue and paint them.  That seems to be a diminishing hope as the snow accumulates here.

After the containers, my workbench is cleared to focus on the Briggs 40-9CM kit and the Showcase Miniatures ballast regulator (and enroute Kershaw tie crane). 

[Santa Fe Guy]

Scott your painted backdrop looks the goods why not try doing one and see how it looks. Maybe add some snow covered mountains across the top to give some distance. Only needs a couple.
Rod.

[Scottl]

Thanks Rod, I think I'll give it a try.  Lots on my to-do list, but I want to be able to take photos from that perspective.

[Coxy]

... This is the kind of golden shot I envisioned at the beginning, with train on each of the CN and CP mainlines.

Very impressive. Love the mountain backdrop too btw. Hell of a scene!

Pictures don't show it but sound and sound effects will really cap off this view.

- Coxy

[Scottl]

Thanks, I've been building up a sound library for videos but I plan to do sound in the scene as well.  I am looking at a Fantasonics player for the river and squealing of the cars on the rails.  I'll also have a few stationary sound decoders in the scene and ramp the volume up as trains pass.