Fix'n a steamer

[superturbine]

Well, sorry about damaged driver, in my defense the key was touch the pin, just enough to get a little solder to come off.  You wiuld not be heating the eccentric crank to properly take solder.  I have had this problem on several engines over the years and its works perfectly.

[victor miranda]

how to fix an N-scale Steamer.

STEP ONE:
>> engage brain. <<
Iffin this was easy, every one would be doing it.
you are allowed to think and act on what you think.

I wish that step was a joke.

step two:
Find your patient spot.
some times you will fix the same problem three or more times.

step three:
be willing to disassemble your problem loco.
because some times the best fix involves having the broken parts off the loco.

the other way to look at this step is to be willing to reassemble your loco.

Every n-scale steamer repair I have ever done has gone through
at least those three steps.


you now have two problems
eccentric rod still needs to be fixed?
and main crank needs to be fixed.

you have to take the valve gear off the loco
to re-rivet (tap with a small hammer and a drillrod)
the eccentric rod. The idea is to mushroom the end
of the eccentric crank to keep the rod from walking off.
the eccentric crank has to be on some kind of anvil to rivet it.
reassembly is the fussy part.
lots of moving parts to get into correct position.

fixing the main crank.....
I strongly reccomend buying a new driver or a set.
If that is not an option, I'd try medium(blue) loctite.
after that a weee little epoxy.

victor

[victor miranda]

I re-read my posts and I want to clarify something.
I can't think of anything quite as hard as
giving out good advice on how to repair an n-scale steam engine model.

one reason is as simple as the advisor has no way to know how
much the person knows about repairing.

when I first read your post I thought the loco had a fall.
after you said 'just the eccentric rod'
I thought why did it pop off?

keep in mind that I was thinking about the repairs in those terms.
Just what did cause the failure as well as how to fix it.

so if you find a bit-o-balast in the gears of your loco.
the real fix is not finished when you remove the bit-o-balast,
rather it is when you re-glue the balast.

victor
Edited to clarify a sentence.

[peteski]

What everybody failed to mention was that if you decided to use solder, the pin should have been pulled out of the driver (and held steady for soldering using locking tweezers or forceps.  That way the melting of the spokes insert would have been avoided.    Consider this a learning experience.... 

[victor miranda]

yes why does everyone avoid mentioning the elephant in the room?

Hi Peteski,
I am certain superturbine states pretty clearly to leave the crank in the driver.

your opinion is a little late. (as is mine)

and while you may well solder a fix onto the end of the eccentric crank after removing the maincrank,
I am sure I would not solder at all.

victor

[mmagliaro]

What everybody failed to mention was that if you decided to use solder, the pin should have been pulled out of the driver (and held steady for soldering using locking tweezers or forceps.  That way the melting of the spokes insert would have been avoided.    Consider this a learning experience.... 

Heh, not *everybody* failed to mention that 
But I grant you that my answer came late.  I asked for a closer photo, and by the time I got back to look at the thread,
he had already tried the other approach. 

Victor, I ponder about the soldering idea myself.  The reason I opt for it in this case is that I think the odds of somebody getting
that eccentric rod and crank off the engine to be able to re-strike that pin, and do it well enough to make it hold,
are pretty low, especiially if one has never done it before.  But scuffing up the two parts and getting some solder to
bond well on there, I think, one could manage with reasonably good soldering skills.  I am making the bet that more people
know how to solder a small joint than can take apart valve gear and strike a miniature rivet joint.  (I may be wrong there, but that's my guess).
I do think that a if that pin is well-soldered to the crank, it will hold.

spr1955 - One thing you can take away from all this debate is that this is definitely not a trivial repair.

[superturbine]

"Not addressing this to spr1955"

Good grief....The pin of the eccentric crank should not be soldered to the rod.  This repair was for someone who had admittedly little experience. And touching the eccentric crank with the soldering iron (and having a small amount of solder stick/ not a strong bond) should never in a million years melt a driver.   What I recommended was a small amount of material at the end of the pin to properly keep the eccentric rod from falling off the crank pin.   The pin correctly called "eccentric crank" would not have to be pulled from the driver.  If you were going to go so far as to remove the crank, then the recommended fix is to spread the end of the pin of the eccentric crack to properly press fit the eccentric rod on.   This is a customer repair I have performed on at least 15 N scale steamers worked every time.

[sizemore]

Couldn't our troubled forumer just ordered the part I mentioned earlier? I feel he's been steered down a path by a much more savy of modeller, when a simple solution was overlooked.

And from my original post the valve gear:
http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_70_82&products_id=376

Possible driver set that could work:
http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_70_82&products_id=378

The S.

[mmagliaro]

YIKES... Jason (superturbine)... you are right.  Now I get it.    I thought a different joint was broken.  I went back and looked at the original
photo, and now I see it.

No... DO NOT solder a "firm joint" like I was saying.   Oh boy, this poor guy. 

I thought that the connection between the crank and the PIN was broken (red line in the photo below).  THAT connection
has to be rigid and firm, which is why I was saying it had to be soldered tight.

But of course, that's wrong, now that I look at the original posted photo.  It's the connection highlighted
by the blue oval.  Yes, in light of this, it was probably okay to hit the tip of that pin with a little solder just to make a "head"
to keep the linkage from coming off.

Also, if you pry out the crank as shown in my photo below, the other end highlighted by the blue oval can easily be
popped out, so the whole 3-piece assembly could be placed on the workbench to repair without too awful a disassembly.
It would probably be easier to do the solder bit that way, or even strike the pin as Victor suggested.

Really REALLY sorry for the misdirection.  I just didn't see which joint was really broken.

[victor miranda]

and once again the poor fellow (I assume male) who asked for help....
is overrun with opinions and advice from the cranks and eccentrics.
ghaa.

hi Max,

I am not against a soldered repair as it is quite often solid.
I definitely like peening as it is the least tool and skill intensive.

... 'course for me, I'd probably make a washer to solder.
or worse, drill a hole in the eccentric crank and locktite
in a new eccentric crank pin.

I am surprised to hear of solder sticking as I have the
impression the eccentric crank/main crank are made of zamac,
which I have not been able to solder.

victor

ps this was in response to the earlier posts by max and others.
I see max has a new post.

[mmagliaro]

and once again the poor fellow (I assume male) who asked for help....
is overrun with opinions and advice from the cranks and eccentrics.
ghaa.

....

I know, I know.  And I am as much to blame for it as anyone.   Well, if he's smart, he'll wait until this all settles and then
make an informed decision.

Actually, buying that $10 part from Bachmann may not be such a bad idea, given that the whole 3-piece linkage can be taken out
without too much fuss on this engine.

[victor miranda]

Max, I feel I am also one of the eccentrics...
god knows I am cranky.

I'd love my writing to be clear and concise.
I mostly hope to cause amusement.

here is the hard question,
you think we all will ever agree on a good repair?

victor

[mmagliaro]

Max, I feel I am also one of the eccentrics...
god knows I am cranky.

I'd love my writing to be clear and concise.
I mostly hope to cause amusement.

here is the hard question,
you think we all will ever agree on a good repair?

victor

Since the poor victim in this case openly said he doesn't do this kind of work on steam locos much,
I am inclined to say that you and I should both eat crow and
say that a better approach would have been to buy some replacement valve gear from Bachmann, the way sizemore
has been imploring us to do.  It may cost $10 + shipping, but it's a safer approach.

Me? I'd probably pull the 3-piece linkage off and whack it, or press it to get that rivet to hold again, or maybe solder a "cap" on it
like superturbine suggests.  But that is not the easiest, safest, way to fix this, and that would have been much better advice.

One of the most damning phrases in all of history may be, "But I was only trying to help."

[victor miranda]

I think I'll save my serving of crow for another day...

Hi Max,
I am not sure you should be too unhappy with yourself.

I certainly missed the problem in my first post.
I am also thinking that 'parts' from the b-mann is the better path.
sadly, I am entirely too well trained that 'parts'
are not available for n-scale locos. so I tend to answer to the more common
how does one repair what is here.

sizemore did mention that heavy mtn valve ear and rods is available as a set.
I think they are the same as the lt mtn  but I am not certain.

for 10 bucks I'd try that path.
that still leaves the issue of disassembly/reassembly.

victor

[Mark.S+10]

If he has owned it for less than a year he could just send it back to B-mann and they will replace it for free.  If it is more than a year old he can send it to B-mann with a check for $25.00 and they will either repair or replace it.  Have fun, Mark.