Replacing Spectrum tender truck sideframes

[mmagliaro]

On the heels of the little discussion that Chris333 spawned in his 2-6-0 thread about Spectrum
tender trucks being ugly and unrealistic, I began pondering....

The Spectrum wheelsets do not fit in any other common sideframe like MT, Atlas, Con-Cor, etc.  (I tried ).

I am sure, however, that I could cut apart some Fox Valley (or even Atlas or other metal wheelsets that are insulated
on one side), and join the two "live" sides together over a piece of short styrene tubing to make an "all-wheels-live" wheelset.
I've done this in the past.  It's not hard at all.  THOSE will fit inside an Atlas or MT truck frame.  Then comes the task
of drilling a few holes and fitting the Spectrum pickup plates in there behind the backs of the sideframes.

HAS ANYBODY ALREADY DONE THIS?  It seems like some of you must have.  Is there some deal-breaker that
will make it impossible?  (before I waste my time   )

Lastly, if you could choose anybody's truck frame to use for steam tender trucks, what would you use?   I will probably use
a handy Atlas one.   But what might be better?

[Chris333]

I have sliced sideframes off and put new ones one, but never did it with Bachmann trucks before. Usually do it with Kato caboose trucks.

Here you can see the Kato caboose trucks:
https://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/MaPa280#5493993509572427650

I grind the thickness down as much as possible, usually about half thickness. Then I take the sideframes I want and grind them down to half thickness.

Here is the same tender as above with new sideframes glued on:
https://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/MaPa280#5499840502210910626

I don't now if that is exactly what you were thinking, but it works for me. Craptastic Model Power tender trucks are good for giving up their sideframes for the cause.

I'm sure this will work with Bachmann trucks as well I just haven't tried it yet. (not out of caboose trucks)

[mmagliaro]

Actually, Chris, what you did isn't what I was thinking, but I considered it.  I think you have a good approach there.
I wasn't sure that the Bachmann sideframes could be filed down enough to put a "faux" side frame on the outside
without it all looking too thick.  But I think it works well.  And YES..  good tip on the MP tender truck frames.
They are pretty (just like their drivers).  If only MP, well, you know the rest...

[victor miranda]

hi Max,

I have tried a few things around this issue and not the exact one you ask.

I lit passenger cars by shaving kato truck frames and gluing the old sideframes
onto the flattened kato sideframes.
that was pretty easy.  much as chris has said.

and I have tried a few other ways
the hardest chunk to chew is how you fit the pick-up.

if you set it between the sideframe and the wheels,
(yes inside pickups off the axle is possible,)
you have to decide if you are going to try for room for a cone
or use a flat plate type axle rider because the spacing of the two is different.

I could not find a combination of wheelsets and trucks
that would allow me to add cone style.
it does not mean it is not possible, only that I didn't find it.
short axles and wide frames are the trick.
The part that drove me nuts was that short axles often went into the cone
far enough to drag the outside of the wheel.  kinda defeats the 'low friction' concept.


the one sucessful all wheel pick-up conversion I made was using b-mann tender axles
in a MP yender truck with the flat plate wipers between the sideframes and the wheels.
the wipers were sprung and rode on the axles.

The truck kept the axles together, almost all the tender weight
was on the wipers.  I spent some time thinning the springs
until the tender settled onto the trucks.

[peteski]

I partially did what you are contemplating Max, but on a different model.  I  took Kato MHC trucks (because caboose an Mikado trucks were out of stock) and modified (cut and soldered) the side bearing/pickups to fit modified sideframes in my Model Power Atlantic loco's tender. Using the Kato wheels of course. I hate those MP high-friction tender pickup and this will nicely solve that problem.  The details of this conversion are to be included in a future magazine article (which I haven't really started yet). 

The bottom line is that this type of conversion is doable.

[SkipGear]

One variation, built into an existing truck...

[victor miranda]

ah skipgear,
such neat and tidy work.

victor

[rogergperkins]

Tony, excellent approach.

[mmagliaro]

Heh, that is a nice job, Tony.  I have tried doing that myself to splice up a 4-axle truck (a PRR long-distance type)
But I could never get the axles to really roll as freely when they are punched all the way through plates like that,
instead of just the tips riding in a cone-shaped recess.    Anyway, yes, very neat and tidy, as your work always is!

I decided to go with Chris's suggestion, just flat-file the Bachmann frames, and graft on something nicer.
And since I do have a pair of MP tender trucks that are useless as trucks, their sideframes became the donor.

The front truck is the original Bachmann.  The rear truck is the grafted job. I have to admit, it looks a lot better than
the Bachmann truck.   Thanks, Chris, for bringing this to my attention.  Does anybody know that that Bachmann
truck is *supposed* to be?  Does it really exist, or did they totally make it up?



 It's still not at all the right type of
sideframe for an SP&S tender truck, but I don't think anybody makes anything like that.  Here's a stolen shot off the web of an
HO brass SP&S tender truck.  I have a nagging feeling that some engine of Bachmann's actually has a tender truck
that is similar to this.

[victor miranda]

lt mtn -- spookshows 'pedia
http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/files/bachlight482.jpg

hard to find truck.

victor

[mmagliaro]

Yes, that's the one, Victor.  I actually have one, I think, in my tender parts stash.  But that isn't really right anyway.  It has
the more modern triple coil springs on it.   What kind of truck is that anyway (the SP&S one)?  Does it have a name?

[Iain]

http://rr-fallenflags.org/ns-s/ns-s-s541ahv.jpg

The Bachman tender trucks look a lot like the trucks found on all E3 class, some E2 class, D5 and D6 class steamers on Norfolk Southern.

[Chris333]

The other Bachmann truck isn't that great and the detail along the top is missing to keep it from hitting the inside tender frame.

I believe Tony knows a prototype for the ugly trucks.

Nice work! The hardest part can be making sure the new sideframes are level, yours is. Some of mine haven't been perfect so I would stack up strip styrene next to the truck, with the truck sitting on a piece of track. I would set the new sideframe on top of the strips and "tack" it in place to make sure it's level.

[mmagliaro]

The other Bachmann truck isn't that great and the detail along the top is missing to keep it from hitting the inside tender frame.

I believe Tony knows a prototype for the ugly trucks.

Nice work! The hardest part can be making sure the new sideframes are level, yours is. Some of mine haven't been perfect so I would stack up strip styrene next to the truck, with the truck sitting on a piece of track. I would set the new sideframe on top of the strips and "tack" it in place to make sure it's level.

Well, thanks, Chris!  It isn't talent, I can assure you.  I use Walthers Goo to put these on, because nothing else will really stick to Delrin very well.
So I just get it close, put it on the track, and then  use the rail and the tender body as guides to get it  straight.  Because it's Goo, you can nudge the sideframe up or down to get it right, and then let the rubbery glue harden up.

[Chris333]

I always used ACC. I figured it would work it way around all the crevices and hold.

Anyone selling old MP tender trucks?