Minitrix K4 all inclusive Improvement thread?

[delamaize]

ok so eventhough I am a NP modeler, I have always had a soft spot for the PRR, and have a Affair with the K4 and T1. I happened acrost a minitrix K4 that is Basicly NIB, and I want to superdetail, Improve running charistics, and all around improve the locomotive. my computer has mental issues, and for some reason the Search for here and the old A boards don't work for me. (its my computer, not the sites) So I'm looking for threads about Improving the K4 and would like to use this Thread as a Index of a sort.

Maybe even evolve this into a Index of improving the Minitrix PRR steamers in General.

so......ASSHATS LETS GET AFTER IT!   

[Lemosteam]

delamaize, her's my contributions:

And the completed model under performance:

Only thing I did not do is turn down the flanges and add a new front LED....
Lifelike motors are fairly inexpensive harvested from an old e7 or e8, f7 etc...

[pnolan48]

Well, Lemosteam's mods put mine to shame. I had a machinist friend turn down the flanges--he swore he would never do that again! Disassembling the drivetrain was real easy; putting it back together was another matter, although a number of knife blade scribes and the existence of three other K-4s made it possible. I wasn't too skilled in these assemblies back then. And I'm still not skilled.

Once I got the drivetrain back together, I pulled the worm from the Minitrix motor. Actually I ruined one before I realized I needed a thinner pusher shaft. I got the worm installed on a Sagami can motor (I think it was a 10-20, or perhaps a 12-20) and then ground away enough of the frame from the original motor mount to get it roughly into position. Then I used bathtub silicone to fix it into position. I was surprised that this was fairly easy. I had done it before in repowering a RR 2-8-8-2 after it dropped to the floor and one of the internal magnets was dislodged.

It ran fine. It didn't pull any more weight, but was smoother and ran at much lower speeds than the original. I ran it with an Atlas/Roco FA-1 pushing it along. These two weak pullers could manage a six car passenger train. At that time I wasn't paying much attention to which wheels were spinning--I was just glad to have a train make it around my layout.

Then I switched to DCC, looked at the K-4 once, and said nah. So I gave it to the machinist as a proud shelf queen.

This was probably back in 1992 or 1993.

[mike_lawyer]

Max Magliaro has a good write-up, I think in the Keystone Modeler, that you can find on the internet about improvements for the mechanism.  In addition, Eldon Souray (the Motorman) has a gear upgrade that makes this a much better runner.

[kelticsylk]

Nothing to offer except thanks. I'm contemplating an overhaul on my Trix and this thread is timely

Frank Musick

[victor miranda]

hi delmaize.

all the usual improvements apply.

all wheel tender pick-up is teh first and biggest.
a motor swap is considered a challenge by most.

the gearing is a tough improvement because of the good quality (relatively) of the gears.

super detailing it.... I would not  try because of the lack of major details
like a nice KW truck and the tender trucks. 
the steam cylinders on the minitrix have always looked a little odd to me.

it is a case of get it going smoothly and pulling what it can.
then put a good paint job on it.
the overall proportions on the 'trix are good there is no mistaking what it represents.
If must super detail it, spend the money on the brass one.
please pend the time detailing another kind of steamer.
the minitrix k4 has enough flaws that when you start detailing you will
bring attention to the manufacturer's oversights.

victor

[mmagliaro]

I wrote a pretty extensive guide (36 pages) with color photos that covers all the mods I usually do
to the Trix, including putting motorman's new compound gear and a Maxon coreless in there, as
well as turning the flanges, rewiring the tender, etc.
I am trying to hunt it down (I can't find the file, but I'm getting motorman to email me back my own guide!)

Anyway, I'm not sure what to do with it.  Like I said, it's 36 pages.  If he doesn't mind, I could post it as a pdf to my website
and put a link in here.  (normally, people get the guide when they buy the motor and gear kit, so I'm not sure it's
free to hand out)

I'll update when I find out.

[delamaize]

hi delmaize.

all the usual improvements apply.

all wheel tender pick-up is teh first and biggest.
a motor swap is considered a challenge by most.

the gearing is a tough improvement because of the good quality (relatively) of the gears.

super detailing it.... I would not  try because of the lack of major details
like a nice KW truck and the tender trucks. 
the steam cylinders on the minitrix have always looked a little odd to me.

it is a case of get it going smoothly and pulling what it can.
then put a good paint job on it.
the overall proportions on the 'trix are good there is no mistaking what it represents.
If must super detail it, spend the money on the brass one.
please pend the time detailing another kind of steamer.
the minitrix k4 has enough flaws that when you start detailing you will
bring attention to the manufacturer's oversights.

victor

Hey Victor,
That is pretty much the plan, make it look a little nicer, improve the pulling and slow speed performance a little, and make a plaseble K4. If I was a PRR modeler, I'd be looking for a good brass one, but the price was right, I got a late run Riverossi 2-8-8-2 and this K4, both NIB with little run time for less than I could buy either alone. So I got the 2-8-8-2, and the K4 was a bonus. (I got plans for the 2-8-8-2)

[mmagliaro]

Yep, you have to borrow, steal, and scratch if you want it to really get accurate.  (Lots of Republic Loco GHQ L1s parts would help)

But I wouldn't go overboard on any of that unless you can put bigger drivers on it and close up the spacing.

ITDS!  ("It's the drivers. stupid!"   LOL!)

With I had some Kato S2 spoked drivers.

[victor miranda]

....

With I had some Kato S2 spoked drivers.

yeah! those are hard to find. 

[mmagliaro]

Okey dokey, my Trix K4 rebuild illustrated guide is now on line.
Go here:
http://www.maxcowonline.com/

In the left-hand pane, you'll see "downloads".  Go there.
Then scroll down and you'll see the " Rebuild/Upgrade Instructions for Trix K4 "  as download link.
It's a .pdf

[Lemosteam]

Ok Max, can you do the same with your I1 article?  Just kidding!!!!

[kelticsylk]

Okey dokey, my Trix K4 rebuild illustrated guide is now on line.
Go here:
http://www.maxcowonline.com/

In the left-hand pane, you'll see "downloads".  Go there.
Then scroll down and you'll see the " Rebuild/Upgrade Instructions for Trix K4 "  as download link.
It's a .pdf

Thanks Max.

I appreciate the info and the time you spent.

Frank Musick

[delamaize]

Wow, did full tender pickup make a difference! Now gotta decide witch way I wanna go with the remotor, the 5 pole LL or the motorman remotor. Given I have the "red" gear version, I'm leaning towards the motorman swap. Just gotta write him to find out how much it runs these days.

As for detail, I'm thinking I'm just going to replace the piping with freestanding stuff, redo the handrails, replace the air pump, valves, whistle, bell, and add the deflector. I want to do to the cast pilot version, dunno how I'm going to do that also. BTW, did these run the big "coast to coast" tenders also? I may have a source for a 180F82 tender.

[mmagliaro]

Wow, did full tender pickup make a difference! Now gotta decide witch way I wanna go with the remotor, the 5 pole LL or the motorman remotor. Given I have the "red" gear version, I'm leaning towards the motorman swap. Just gotta write him to find out how much it runs these days.

As for detail, I'm thinking I'm just going to replace the piping with freestanding stuff, redo the handrails, replace the air pump, valves, whistle, bell, and add the deflector. I want to do to the cast pilot version, dunno how I'm going to do that also. BTW, did these run the big "coast to coast" tenders also? I may have a source for a 180F82 tender.

Hah!  You ain't just a-kidding.  The Trix B6 shows the same dramatic improvement with tender pickups.

The K4 can actually RUN, now, ain't it great?    As one who has done the motorman remotor many times, I can tell you, it's not hard.
The red gear conversion is harder than the black gear, unfortuately.   You'll have to punch out the pin that holds the red gear in
(from the back).  You need to find a spot to brace the frame flat without mangling the drivers.  Then, one quick tap with a small
punch and a hammer and it will come right out.  Just tap lightly.
He packages a small piece of hollow stainless hypodermic tubing with the new gear, so you just tap that into the hole.
You also have to Dremel out some of the frame cavity where the gear goes, on the red-gear version.

None of this is awful.  But on black-gear engines, you just drop the new gear right in on the existing shaft and you're done (at
least with the gear part). It's a lot easier.

Other big things to watch out for:
- getting the motor worm nice and straight over the gear, and shimmed just right so the worm mesh is optimal.  I like to put
my styrene shim in, then hold it while I run it with an ammeter, and check the current, wiggling the motor up/down/left/right, until
I find the optimum spot that draws minimum current.  Put a drop or two of ACC in to fix the motor in that spot, test-run it on the track,
and then back it up with epoxy.

- reaming the inside of the shell to fit over the motor.  Go with caution, so you don't grind through the plastic from the inside
and ruin the shell (don't ask).

Really, the worst part of the job, by far, is grinding down the wheel flanges.