operations in N scale?

[superchief]

Rodger: could not agree more/ all this work-research-planning-building is for the goal of operations

sdodge: nice car cards

Michael: good info, are all of your operators "N" or do you have any "HOers"?

I lost a couple of good operators, and have had to fill in with "HOers" and have problems reading rhe numbers.

keep on posting guys, lets hear your ideas, lets improve our operations. thanks, Gordon

[MVW]

I'm building what I hope will eventually be a large layout ... one HCD at a time. I just brought the second HCD online, so essentially I have a five-track yard and four industries to switch. Staging is nearly non-existent at the moment, but will be added in the next expansion. Currently, I have one east staging track and one west staging track.

The focus will be completely on the switching generated by six through freights, and on five switching jobs to serve the online industries. (The main reason there are so many local switch jobs is that one of those indusries is a meat packing plant, which requires lots of shuffling of reefers and stock cars.)

Operations will be designed for two people, encompassing a 24-hour day. Starting out, I'll just be running by train sequence, but I expect to eventually use an 8:1 fast clock. Currently, dispatching is not an issue. Everything is geared around operations in a single city; trains from staging are brought on at a certain time, then go right back to staging.

I'll be using car cards (with pictures of the car or block of cars) with four-cycle waybills. Eventually, as the railroad grows, I could see switching to a software resource, possibly Easy Model Railroad Inventory or JMRI. I think I've looked at Railop in the past, and will have to check that out again.

Operation is the main reason I'm involved in model railroading. I enjoy planning and building, but what I enjoy most is planning and building for operations.

Jim

[MichaelWinicki]

Michael: good info, are all of your operators "N" or do you have any "HOers"?

I lost a couple of good operators, and have had to fill in with "HOers" and have problems reading rhe numbers.

One other N-scaler, the others are HO... and the N-scaler uses the "pin" method so he doesn't read car numbers.

The one comment I kept hearing from folks was, "Hey I can see the numbers because of the lighting." 

There's no question the distance the car is from the layout edge has something to do with it too, but no doubt if the lighting isn't at a certain level the rest doesn't matter.

My big challenge will be the weathering thing– 98% of my cars are not weathered, so I'm going to have to find a balance there between weathering accuracy (if there is such a thing  ) and number legibility.

[NS-CRE]

I previous version of my N scale Charleston, Roanoke & Eastern was operated regularly (every other month) from 1997 to 2008.  The current version, which was expanded in a new location, has been operating since 2010.  I switched recently from the every-other-month schedule to quarterly, as I regularly operate on other area layouts with the same core group.  Five of those other layouts are N scale, so operation in 1:160 is very common in this area of North Carolina. 

Stealing the format from above:


BENCHWORK - Double-deck (approximately 250 feet of mainline run, plus about 100 feet of branchline run)
GRADE - 0-2.8% grade
RUNTIME - Roughly 40 minutes at an acceptable slow speed (haven't checked this in awhile)
# OF TRAINS - Approximately 40 trains
LENGTH OF SESSION: 6 hours (split into two 3-hour sessions on the same day, one before and one after lunch.)  Most operators stay for both.
OP'S PREFERENCE - Through trains (coal and merchandise), locals and mine shifters, pusher operations.
TRACK - Atlas C55
WHEELSETS/COUPLERS - Micro-Trains trucks/couplers (low profile with one Intermountain metal axle per car for future detection)
CREW: 8-10 operators  (1 dispatcher, 1-2 yard crews, 5-6 road crews, 1 branchline dedicated crew). This gets adjusted based on attendees.
PAPERWORK - Shenandoah Software 4-cycle waybills with car cards, plus home-made multi-car block tickets and empty car orders for coal traffic
COMMUNICATIONS - FRS radios (one channel for dispatcher-train communications, another for dispatcher-yard-trainmaster communications)
DISPATCHING - CTC (using CATS dispatching software and JMRI) and verbal Track Warrant Control.  Train Orders on branchline.
CONTROL - Digitrax DCC with radio or tethered throttles
STAGING - Two 9-track staging yards at each end, one additional 3-track staging yard, and several single-track staging stubs
UNCOUPLING - Rix Picks
TRAIN LIMITS - Merchandise trains 25-30 cars, variable depending on loco/track profile limits.  Coal trains 24-34 cars.


OBSERVATIONS:

I believe in invitation-only sessions to keep the crew consistent, built of operators who know each other and can get along.  Good communications before, during, and after the session help set expectations and anticipation of what needs to be done.  Crews sign up for jobs in advance of session when possible, and we have a pre-session briefing to go over changes to the layout or other topics that need to be discussed.  Thorough paperwork explaining each train crew's duties while assigned to a job (telling them what needs to be done but not necessarily telling them how to do it) is very important.

My crew is made up of a lot of N Scalers but also HO's.  Everyone seems to do fine, realizing that operations are not scale-based and can be done well regardless of the size of the trains.

Oh, and I have Atlas Code 55 track yet I have been running one coal train for 2 years with Micro-trains "pizza cutters" just because I haven't changed them out.  Granted, it is a heavily weighted coal train but it runs without issue except for a little extra clicking.   Also, currently nearly all cars have truck-mounted couplers, although I do hope to switch them out someday.  Even with long train lengths and pushers on the rear of heavy coal trains, we have very few issues.  Usually if a derailment occurs on a train being pushed, it's because the rear crew is pushing too hard and pushes the last car off the track.

Marcus

www.kntower.com

[VonRyan]

My 3' x 7 ' freelance shortline and logging road has been in continous operation for 17 years.
- One or 2 operators
- 2 cab DC
- Traditional benchwork
- 8-10 car trains
- 3 yards to switch
- Use the Rix Pic for uncoupling, no magnets
- Use a free inventory program that prints car cards
- I also use the unit train concept with one car card for logging trains
- I have problems with tight curves. Cannot run Bluford 86' box cars!

What's the program you use?

-Cody F.

[davefoxx]

I have had the honor to operate on both Lee Weldon's N scale WM Western End and seusscaboose's N scale NKP layouts numerous times as one of the lucky few to be considered a regular operator on both layouts.  Both are large layouts that use car cards for operations.  I can affirmatively state that operations in N scale are very possible and can function very well, if planned and executed properly.  The smaller scale allows for longer trains and longer runs between towns.  Those longer runs between towns can be crucial to allow time for a local to switch a town before being run over by a fast freight or to allow the yardmaster to catch his breath.  Fun, fun, fun!

DFF

[sdodge]

Cody F. - The program I use is a free program located in the Yahoo Group - CarCards.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CarCards/

You must join the group (free) to have access to the files. It is located in the "Files" section of the members only area. I do not remember the exact filename, something like (?).exe. You should be able to find it. My Yahoo account was compromised so I cancelled it and I currently do not have access to CarCards to give you detailed info but as I said you should be able to locate it.

I talked to the guy that developed the program and he had planned to put it on the market but I guess it was too much of a hassle to do that so he now just offers it for free in that group. I have been using it for 3 years and I am happy with it.

Steve

[superchief]

great information Marcus, can you expand on communication with the crews? written orders/ train operation description/ printed or other? and how does signing up for jobs before the session work? first come get best choice/ one person hog the same job? Thanks for the information, I feel that I am in a "rut" and trying to make some changes to enhance the ops. trying everyone best ideas. Thanks, Gordon

[VonRyan]

Cody F. - The program I use is a free program located in the Yahoo Group - CarCards.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CarCards/

You must join the group (free) to have access to the files. It is located in the "Files" section of the members only area. I do not remember the exact filename, something like (?).exe. You should be able to find it. My Yahoo account was compromised so I cancelled it and I currently do not have access to CarCards to give you detailed info but as I said you should be able to locate it.

I talked to the guy that developed the program and he had planned to put it on the market but I guess it was too much of a hassle to do that so he now just offers it for free in that group. I have been using it for 3 years and I am happy with it.

Steve

Thanks for the info, i just looked into the group and am in the process of joining.

-Cody F.

[GaryHinshaw]

My layout is designed for ops, but since it's still in the construction phase, I can only comments on my goals.  Also stealing the format from above:

BENCHWORK - Double-deck, approximately 165 feet of mainline run (5 s-miles), 2-3 industrial districts.
MAIN LINE - single track with sidings; UP owned, BNSF trackage rights
RULING GRADE - 2.3%
RUN TIME - 15 min @ 20 s-mph (with no stops), 30-40 min with meets (depending on skill of the DS)
THROUGH TRAINS - intermodal, manifest, grain, coil steel, vehicle, perishable, occasional passenger/officer special, coal
LOCALS - Edison packing house turn, Monolith cement job, possible refinery job
TRAIN LENGTH - 10-14' (actual length)
# OF OPERATORS - 4-6 + 1 DS, but still TBD pending experience; each crew member might handle 3 trains per session
LENGTH OF SESSION: 3 hours
COMMUNICATIONS - Radio, details TBD
DISPATCHING - CTC signal indication, details TBD
CONTROL - Digitrax DCC with wireless throttles
STAGING - One 8-track staging yard at north end, one 3-track 5-loop staging helix at south end, possible "near-line" staging in addition.
UNCOUPLING - Manual

I am still looking for a solution acceptable to me and the operators around here.  In the meantime the only one it sems to bother is the superintendent who has to set the layout up.

I can confirm that it doesn't bother me a bit. 

-gfh

[superchief]

several said that they use "fast clocks". question is what ratio are you using and are your trains scheduled by the clock or just Passengers and Freights run as extras? thanks, Gordon

[NS-CRE]

great information Marcus, can you expand on communication with the crews? written orders/ train operation description/ printed or other? and how does signing up for jobs before the session work? first come get best choice/ one person hog the same job? Thanks for the information, I feel that I am in a "rut" and trying to make some changes to enhance the ops. trying everyone best ideas. Thanks, Gordon

Gordon,

Things are ever-changing as I try to enhance the way operations are peformed.  I'll tell you how things are currently being done on the CR&E.

The CTC portion of the railroad, which should be expanded by the next session to include at least two more sidings, is run using Rodney Black's excellent CATS program.  It is a JMRI-based program that can be downloaded from the JMRI website.  The dispatcher sees a modern CTC display that emulates what is found on a PC in a prototype dispatcher's office.  Trains move on signal indication and the dispatcher lines the routes.  Verbal communication between the dispatcher and train crew in that section of the railroad will hopefully be limited to initial contact (train crew saying they're ready to enter the territory) and any kind of special instructions (locals needing certain track to work.)  My goal is to let the signals do the rest, and that seemed to work last month in our first CTC operating session.  The radio traffic was noticeably lighter.

The Track Warrant Control portion of the railroad is also dispatched using CATS, because this program can be used as a "magnet board" as well.  Train tags are placed on the track section, signals and switches "lined" (although nothing actually happens on the layout), and the dispatcher gives verbal permission for the train to move in the territory that he has lined on the screen.  "Proceed from Coleman to New Castle on the main track, clear the main track at New Castle."  This communication is done via FRS radio.  As crews report by a location with the rear of their train, the dispatcher can use CATS to move the symbol and/or release track limits behind the train.  It works really well. 

My train order branch line is running rather informally now, but we have copied Form 19 orders and given them to the crews running on the branch.  I'm finding that may not be necessary, as usually there is only one crew out there with an occasional second crew on the branch at any time.  I do love train orders, though, so I'd eventually like to re-implement this even though the traffic is very light.

Train crews get a laminated two-sided 4 X 6 card that shows the track territory and train information (engine number, DCC address, staging track assignments, number of cars) as well as specific instructions for running the train.  I find the track territory is helpful because it shows a straight-line map of the railroad with station names and siding locations  This laminated card is clipped to a clear plastic pouch that holds the car cards and waybills for the train.  All of these train packets are kept in a red mini-crate (I got the crates at Walmart) in sequence.  As trains are assigned, the crews pick up the packets out of the red crate, clip it to their lanyard around their neck, and run the train.  When they arrive at the destination, they toss the train packet into a black mini-crate.

The first round of crew assignments are done manually.  I've used different methods, from first person in the door gets first pick to drawing numbers.  I like drawing numbers, and the person with #1 gets the first pick of the first round of trains, with everyone else following in order.  The first "round" is 4-6 trains, depending on how many road crews are in attendance.  After that, crews sign up for the next available train on their own.  If something is coming up that they don't want to run, they can "lay off the job" by taking a break.  They can't go out of order unless I authorize it, because the sequence is set so that certain things happen at the right time (hopefully.)  Normally this works well as I have a known crew and I know the capabilities of the operators.  This would not work if you don't know the capabilities as well.  Prior to going to the self-service sign-up, which several of us did at once on our area layouts, I was assigning the next train based on who was available next.

The dispatcher has a second radio for communication with the yardmaster and trainmaster (me).  We take care of business functions like having trains stop to pick up at unplanned locations, asking questions, solving problems, etc.  The dispatcher also talks with the yardmaster before lining a train up to the yard limits, to be sure the yardmaster is ready for the train.  This is supposed to be done before the train passes the last meeting location before getting to the yard.

I'm also using a 4:1 fast clock, mainly for reference and pacing the session.  I don't like giving the crews the feeling that we're "running late" because I don't want them rushing to complete their work.  The lineup has call times on it, and most of the time we don't run trains ahead of call times.  If trains leave later than planned, so be it.  The fast clock can also introduce things like taking time to do brake tests, working retainers, crews running out of time on the Hours of Service Law, etc.

I've had HO guys who have never operated in N scale come to the layout and say they are amazed how the scale difference goes away once operations start.  It's a nice compliment to hear them say that the railroad runs as well as any layout in another scale.  Sure, we have our problems and I swear people are lying if they say they NEVER have an issue in operating sessions.  With the right group of operators, though, even sessions when the gremlins come out end up being enjoyable.

I hope all this babble has helped answer some of your questions.

Marcus

[NS-CRE]

I forgot to add that I send out a session invitation by email about a month in advance and I let it be known that the maximum crew size is 10 people.  I usually end up with around 10, sometimes with a waiting list.  With split sessions (one in the morning and one in the afternoon) I can usually accomodate more than 10 people (though not all at once) because usually at least some crew members only elect to participate in one of the sessions.

I request volunteers for the assigned "management" jobs in advance (dispatcher, yardmaster, yard crew, branch line crew).  I split those into shifts (one before lunch, one after lunch).  Hogging of jobs really hasn't become a problem that I've seen.  There are some people who really like certain jobs and some people who really don't want to do those jobs, so it works out.  I try to rotate people who wants these jobs so I have more qualified people to dispatch, run the yards, etc. 

Marcus

[superchief]

Marcus Thanks for all the great info!, I suffer from not having a "regular crew" and have lost two of my "heavy" operators. If hosting out of town folks I always play host but I only have two guys that can/ want to take over the Dispatchers Job. For "regular" sessions I like to "operate" and will always take the Dispatchers job or the large passenger terminal that sees 11 trains in the session. One problem is making the session"too easy" or "too hard". Right now I run an A and B session that run the same trains just in different directions and I have thought of making a C and D session that is lighter and not as hard. I have a fast clock but have not put it up yet thinking it would over stress the session. Thanks for your reply and all the great info. BTW how often do you operate? Gordon  

[NS-CRE]

Marcus Thanks for all the great info!, I suffer from not having a "regular crew" and have lost two of my "heavy" operators. If hosting out of town folks I always play host but I only have two guys that can/ want to take over the Dispatchers Job. For "regular" sessions I like to "operate" and will always take the Dispatchers job or the large passenger terminal that sees 11 trains in the session. One problem is making the session"too easy" or "too hard". Right now I run an A and B session that run the same trains just in different directions and I have thought of making a C and D session that is lighter and not as hard. I have a fast clock but have not put it up yet thinking it would over stress the session. Thanks for your reply and all the great info. BTW how often do you operate? Gordon

I currently operate four times a year with my regular crew, and occasionally run some impromptu sessions with another group of guys.  I did six times a year (even numbered months) for years, but with a bunch of great operating layouts coming online in this area (in N and HO), people were overdosing on operations.  It gets tough (maybe a good problem) when you can literally go to an operating session somewhere every Saturday.  A few of us lightened up our schedule to create a few empty slots in the calendar.

Dispatching is something I really enjoy, but I really don't do it here.  I roam the layout mostly, and occasionally run a train.  I dispatch regularly at other layouts.  That's a job I find fun and challenging, but a lot of people don't like it.   

I also did the A and B session, which allowed me to stage once and run two sessions from what was staged.  I guess it still is like that, except now the two sessions are on the same day.  I've been contemplating what to do with a smaller crew for irregular operating sessions, creating a "C" session with fewer locals or something.  I still haven't figured that out yet.

What part of the country are you in?