A fairly "Narrow" track plan and some background

[VonRyan]

To all who don't yet know, i'm venturing into the deep, dark realm of Nn3. I'm modelling a Welsh slate railway and although their gauge was normally 2' or 2'3", i'm certainly not going to go that far. Despite some folks saying that i shouldn't get into Nn3 unless i can totally afford it (which that remains to be determined by my determination), but anyhow even though i've only $40 left in the coffers and nothing coming in as of yet, i still feel that with the right amount of careful spending and the support of fantastic modelers such as yourselves, i can put my pennies to work and make something out of my ideas finally. So far i've managed to trade an old N-scale 0-6-0 chassis for a chassis to a german v60 and a small group of other parts, and someone among you has even gone so far as to be on the hunt for parts and has come up with some parts to another v60. I've put 12.95 out for a 12v 6mm x 12mm motor (sadly not from the Nigel Lawton range, for those familiar) and i've ideas for two locos. One being an 0-4-0 with the motor in the boiler and the second a two axle steam tram with a motor mounted vertically between the two axles. Through one of many yahoo groups i've managed to find someone who is willing to use their Fast Tracks jig to handlay 10 code 55 #6 turnouts at only the cost of materials and shipping, and someone who is selling me three code 55 #6s for only $3 each. Coincidentally that makes just enough turnouts to fit into the track plan i've managed to come up with. Albeit i still need to obtain some track gauges, rail and PCB ties to handlay the rest of the trackage, but its work that must be done and shall be done if i ever get going on the layout. If however i decide to not build the layout, the railway shall be incarnated in the form of part of N-Trak modules.
Anyway, the track plan for the possible layout, as drawn on 5-squares-to-the-inch graph paper that my scanner didn't have quite enough room to scan:


I'm open to any and all comments, suggestions, critiques, advice, assistance, support, A$$hat advice, etc.

Thanks all!

-Cody F.

[VonRyan]

Version 2 with some much needed changes and additions.
Drawn at a scale of 4/5"=1' but the track is more or less roughed in.



-Cody F.

[S Class]

There was an 009 layout in the shape of a triangle someone posted a decent thread over on RMweb a while back, but try as a might I could never find it again, but the theme was similar on the welsh slate and narrow gauge common carrier lines. One thing that stood out operationally was that at the apex of the layout the trains didn't loop around to climb the valley but in a switch back move at a 'halt' they had to reverse direction - maybe it's something you could consider in place of the over/under loop on the top left.

One such over/under loop would be fine visually and close to the terminus it would be acceptable back when the line was built and the capital was available but such engineering would be expensive to have it twice on a small, relatively poor single commodity line  or you could go back to plan one with the horseshoe curve arrangement up a narrow twisty creek valley, the visual options are many for the fill in scenery and it would just wail 'Wales'

Just my two  's worth.

[VonRyan]

The second bridge, closer to the mine will most likely be four thick logs over a narrow gap, thus being cheaper to go over than around.
Those over at NGRM-online have been quick to offer ideas and hence why version 2 has come about... there was talk of not enough run-around loops...

-Cody F.

[S Class]

Also as dumb as it sounds, you know what would be 7 shades of awesome?

Working Nn3 incline system for loads and empties.

oh er, must have a lie down I think.

[Chris333]

My 2 pennies. Small Z locos run like crap and have poor pickups. So you might want to go with a roundy- round layout or at least set it up so it can be ran that way. But you have a long run so it may not be too bad running back and forth.

[VonRyan]

My 2 pennies. Small Z locos run like crap and have poor pickups. So you might want to go with a roundy- round layout or at least set it up so it can be ran that way. But you have a long run so it may not be too bad running back and forth.

I already have a nice 12v 6mm X 12mm motor i bought off of ebay so hopefully that'll help alleviate some of the ailments. I'm debating a hidden section to make the layout continuous running, but it would be a lot of hidden trackage.

Also as dumb as it sounds, you know what would be 7 shades of awesome?

Working Nn3 incline system for loads and empties.

oh er, must have a lie down I think.

Actually i've thought of that... possibly utilizing a magnetic roller to take loads out of the ones coming down from the mine, but to put loads in i'm still trying to sort out a reliable solution.

-Cody F.

[wcfn100]

If you're going to hand lay the track, seriously consider c40.  You can see in these pics how big c55 looks with the smaller Nn3 equipment.





As for turnouts, can you use stub switches?

Jason

[elnscale]

I spent my high school years in Mid-Wales and there are a number of narrow gauge railroads in Mid- and North-Wales serving slate mines. The one that your proposal reminds me the most of is the Ffestiniog Railway from Portmadog to Blaenau Ffestiniog.

What all of them have in common is that they predominantly run on the sides of the valleys after they depart the terminus (rail connection and/or port) which is typically a flat area. The natural terrain in the area is deep, steep sided v-shaped valleys with some scored out to u-shaped by glaciers. The valley that the Talyllyn Railway runs in is very steep sided.

So for your layout, that would mean that, except for the bottom right corner, the layout should predominantly be on the side of a valley. Appropriately, the two photos posted by wcfn100 both depick the railroad on the side of a valley.

[VonRyan]

If you're going to hand lay the track, seriously consider c40.  You can see in these pics how big c55 looks with the smaller Nn3 equipment.





As for turnouts, can you use stub switches?

Jason

I originally intended to use code 40, but the fact that the only person willing to handlay turnouts for me without charging $30-$50 each only has the Fast Tracks jig for code 55 #6s.
And is to my using stub switches, i'm open to using anything at this point as long as it'll work. Its mostly a matter of i'm $4 away from being flat broke after buying a copy of The Nn3 Handbook.

I spent my high school years in Mid-Wales and there are a number of narrow gauge railroads in Mid- and North-Wales serving slate mines. The one that your proposal reminds me the most of is the Ffestiniog Railway from Portmadog to Blaenau Ffestiniog.

What all of them have in common is that they predominantly run on the sides of the valleys after they depart the terminus (rail connection and/or port) which is typically a flat area. The natural terrain in the area is deep, steep sided v-shaped valleys with some scored out to u-shaped by glaciers. The valley that the Talyllyn Railway runs in is very steep sided.

So for your layout, that would mean that, except for the bottom right corner, the layout should predominantly be on the side of a valley. Appropriately, the two photos posted by wcfn100 both depick the railroad on the side of a valley.

Interesting you say the Ffestiniog since my major influence is the Talyllyn. Most of my influence comes from the old film "Railway with a Heart of Gold" that I watch almost once-a-day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw4JCJjV87U&feature=related

Though i am basically going for a run-of-the-mill Northern Wales slate mine and NG railway.

-Cody F.

[wcfn100]

I originally intended to use code 40, but the fact that the only person willing to handlay turnouts for me without charging $30-$50 each only has the Fast Tracks jig for code 55 #6s.
And is to my using stub switches, i'm open to using anything at this point as long as it'll work. Its mostly a matter of i'm $4 away from being flat broke after buying a copy of The Nn3 Handbook.

I guess I was asking if stub switches would fit your prototype.  Nothing says US narrow gauge more than stub switches.  Also, stub switches don't require point rails so only the frog needs fabrication. 

Code 40 ME rail is about $1.50 each.  I doubt it would take more a than a piece or two to get proficient at making the frog rails.  You would just need to have a good Mill File.

Small turnouts don't really require jigs.  A paper template and some track gauges is more than enough to get good results. 

And one of the best parts of hand laying turnouts is you can't get much more value for your $$$.  A bucks' worth of rail can keep you busy for hours and result in something that can't be matched off the shelf.

Jason

[VonRyan]

Well, at $3 each for code 55 #6's, thats cost of materials, plus the guy is looking to get more use out of his jig anyway, hence why all i have to do is pay shipping and for material costs. $30 per 10 turnouts is a godsend and once i've the cash built up once more i'll be making a start on a small 1'x6' trail layout to get a feel for handlaying basic track.

-Cody F.

[elnscale]

Interesting you say the Ffestiniog since my major influence is the Talyllyn.

Interesting. We had a holiday home in Tywyn which is the terminus of the Talyllyn, about a mile away. Later we were in Aberdovey just south of there. Went on the train many times. Walked the viaducts when nobody around.

The reason I had suggested Ffestiniog (before you said you were influenced by Talyllyn) is because they have an extensive terminal facility at Porthmadog, much more so than the Talyllyn does at Tywyn which really just has a few sidings. Also the loops that you have is much more indicative of the vertical rises and terrain on the Ffestiniog versus the Talyllyn which is basically a straight shot railroad. Btw, the Ffestiniog has a super scene to model, which is the seawall approach to Porthmadog. Railroad high, road low, sea each side. Sample photo is at http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7070/6984319749_7066f2b906_z.jpg. Might fit it in left of the station center bottom

[VonRyan]

Interesting. We had a holiday home in Tywyn which is the terminus of the Talyllyn, about a mile away. Later we were in Aberdovey just south of there. Went on the train many times. Walked the viaducts when nobody around.

The reason I had suggested Ffestiniog (before you said you were influenced by Talyllyn) is because they have an extensive terminal facility at Porthmadog, much more so than the Talyllyn does at Tywyn which really just has a few sidings. Also the loops that you have is much more indicative of the vertical rises and terrain on the Ffestiniog versus the Talyllyn which is basically a straight shot railroad. Btw, the Ffestiniog has a super scene to model, which is the seawall approach to Porthmadog. Railroad high, road low, sea each side. Sample photo is at http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7070/6984319749_7066f2b906_z.jpg. Might fit it in left of the station center bottom

I considered the seawall near Porthmadog, but i'm mostly going for the hills, mountains, and the grass-embedded track that can be seen in the open segment from the "Railway with a Heart of Gold" film, the link for which i posted earlier.

-Cody F.

[elnscale]

Cody, that's a really cool movie.

I lived within 50 miles of there from 1973 until 1978 and have been in the area every couple of years since (I grew up in and around London and moved to the USA in 1984), been on the railway dozens of times and I've never seen that movie before.

The only thing that is wrong is the pronounciation of Talyllyn. In the movie it is pronounced Tally-Lynne; very American. This is way wrong, even without the Welsh inflection of the LL (a distaph, ie a single alphabetic letter, not double-L). It is Tal-uh-llin - see below for the sound of ll and replace in the "an" sound in "llan" with "in". And there you have it. HTH