$1,097 Modeling Experience

[Roger Holmes]

My dentist of 35 years retired and I went to his young protoge' yesterday for my 4th crown.  In the past this was a two visit experience that began with holding a tray of goop in your mouth for 10 minutes so that some outside vendor could cast a new tooth from the mold.

Yesterday after the usual numbing and grinding he placed a tiny digital camera on a stick in my mouth and took a number of digital images.  These showed up in 3D on a computer screen and were tweaked by the dentist.  I then got to go down the hall to watch a computer driven machine create my tooth.  It started with a dice sized block of porceline and two high speed rotary files (and a lot of water) that tore into the block for about 7 minutes creating the concave underside and all of the detail on the remaining 5 sides of the tooth.  The final pass cut it off from the remaining block.  The technician cleaned the cut-off burr and began tweaking the fit which was almost spot on right out of the machine.  Because the camera had made an image of the opposing tooth there was very little adjustment needed to get a good bite.

The whole time I was watching the tooth being created I thought about the model railroading applications that might be possible particularly with a bigger block of material .  I also thought about the $1,097 worth of trains I won't be buying anytime soon .

[VonRyan]

I don't know about you, but i'd have been thinking about the camera and the possibility of mounting it in the cab of a dummy loco to take some cab video on a layout. I recently began thinking about getting one of the newer cellphone camera elements and look into figuring out out to adapt it and some related hardware into a video camera that can be fit inside a dummy loco with a detailed cab. Of course that takes your $1,097 experience and pushes it towards the $2,000 range but it sure would make some nice videos of layouts from the cab interior, obviously  more prototypical i'd think.

-Cody F.

[DKS]

I don't know about you, but i'd have been thinking about the camera and the possibility of mounting it in the cab of a dummy loco to take some cab video on a layout. I recently began thinking about getting one of the newer cellphone camera elements and look into figuring out out to adapt it and some related hardware into a video camera that can be fit inside a dummy loco with a detailed cab. Of course that takes your $1,097 experience and pushes it towards the $2,000 range but it sure would make some nice videos of layouts from the cab interior, obviously  more prototypical i'd think.

-Cody F.

You could likely do that for <$100 with off-the-shelf equipment and a couple of small mirrors...

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Shoot, Rob's done it already...

But the 3D imaging, copied with a RP machine of a different type... hmmm....

[DKS]

Shoot, Rob's done it already...

Engineer's eye view, or just through the nose? I think the point was taking it to the next level--still nothing that couldn't be done fairly economically.

[peteski]

I don't know about you, but i'd have been thinking about the camera and the possibility of mounting it in the cab of a dummy loco to take some cab video on a layout. I recently began thinking about getting one of the newer cellphone camera elements and look into figuring out out to adapt it and some related hardware into a video camera that can be fit inside a dummy loco with a detailed cab. Of course that takes your $1,097 experience and pushes it towards the $2,000 range but it sure would make some nice videos of layouts from the cab interior, obviously  more prototypical i'd think.

-Cody F.

Cody, I've been doing this since around 2004.  There is no need to "roll your own". I use a "train camera" smaller than most of those $49.99 special jobs available from various sources. That tiny camera has been available since around 2004. It is actually made by a company specializing in industrial and medical cameras (like the pill-camera you swallow to take images of your digestive track). 

Up to this point I have done 3 installs (in various N scale dummy locos). The camera is totally hidden inside the loco. I enjoy running them during train shows on our N-Trak layout and seeing lots of spectators awed with the fact that the camera-equipped engine looks just like any other model engine unless you really know were to look for the lens.

My first install is documented on Kato's website. Go to the photo gallery http://www.katousa.com/gallery/albums.php?set_albumListPage=5 then look for Peter Wisniewski's entry.
My 2nd install is documented in http://www.cybersandy.net/peteski/TrainCam02.pdf
I'm currently documenting my 3rd install (in a Kato E8) in an article I'll be sending to one of the model magazines.

For sample of videos (my first attempt so the quality is not quite what I was aiming for) go to http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=62981

There are of course other alternatives. Modelers use the larger and cheaper cameras and mount them (and a battery) on a flat car. Others use inexpensive camera with video recorder mounted inside a pen (with a USB interface). But that one does no allow for live viewing.   Making your own would be quite difficult since you either have to attach the camera to a video transmitter or a recorder (which have to be small enough to fit inside your dummy engine.

Umm.. Cody, looking at your and mine post in this thread, we are really off-topic. Sorry Roger!

My dentist just recently acquired this piece of equipment but I haven't seen it in action yet.  It is amazing how the technology advances nowadays.  We have affordable rapid prototyping and now even custom crowns can be fully made on e computerized equipment without too much of human assistance.

[Zox]

a video camera that can be fit inside a dummy loco with a detailed cab

The problem with this idea is depth of field. There's no way you'll be able to focus the camera on the detailed interior and the view outside the windows.

I'm not just speaking theoretically; a MARRS member tried that trick with a camera looking out the back of an HO-scale observation car, and got nothing but indistinct black blurs around the edge of the image.

I suspect the only way to get a viable "out-the-cab-window" view would be to digitally superimpose a cab interior over the live video feed.

[peteski]

The problem with this idea is depth of field. There's no way you'll be able to focus the camera on the detailed interior and the view outside the windows.

I'm not just speaking theoretically; a MARRS member tried that trick with a camera looking out the back of an HO-scale observation car, and got nothing but indistinct black blurs around the edge of the image.

I suspect the only way to get a viable "out-the-cab-window" view would be to digitally superimpose a cab interior over the live video feed.

Exactly!

[DKS]

The problem with this idea is depth of field. There's no way you'll be able to focus the camera on the detailed interior and the view outside the windows.

Combine-Z software, which is like Helicon Focus, can process video taken at different focal lengths. So, in theory, it's possible. But using a green-screened cab interior is still way easier.

[peteski]

Are you suggesting having 2 micro-cams inside the model? One focused on the subminiature and fully detailed interior while the other is focused for infinity to show the view outside the cab? That seems to be a bit of an overkill. 

This is terrible: I am feeling so guilty for continuing this totally OT discussion on this thread, yet I keep on posting more OT messages.... 

[robert3985]

Are you suggesting having 2 micro-cams inside the model? One focused on the subminiature and fully detailed interior while the other is focused for infinity to show the view outside the cab? That seems to be a bit of an overkill. 

This is terrible: I am feeling so guilty for continuing this totally OT discussion on this thread, yet I keep on posting more OT messages.... 

Hahahaha!! You're actually accusing DKS of "overkill"??????  Hahahaha...THAT is funny!

Cheers!
Bob Gilmore

[DKS]

Well, truthfully, I was not suggesting two cameras. The software I mentioned is capable of processing video shot at multiple focal lengths, the issue being that it's not possible to shoot video that way practically; it would require several runs. I was simply making a point that it's possible to produce video with "infinite" depth of field, and with only one camera. Which is why I added that superimposing the cab in the live video feed is far more practical.

[rogergperkins]

  Roger, my tooth tale for you.  About 7 years ago before I retired, I visited my dentist of 28 years for a resolution of all  dental problems before I got off company dental insurance. 
One event was a gold crown.  $$$
Some months later, after moving to IL, I experienced several pain that lead to a root canal on that same gold crown tooth. $$$$   About a year passed, then big pain again.  Tooth implant for the same gold tooth. $$$$$   At that point when the tooth was removed, I asked to see it and took it home as a souvenier reminder of how much n-scale stuff that all represents.   

[eric220]

What about building a detailed cab interior around the television that's projecting the feed from the locomotive, as though the TV is a window?

[peteski]

What about building a detailed cab interior around the television that's projecting the feed from the locomotive, as though the TV is a window?

I like that!  A locomotive cab simulator. Now add some realistic controls tied to the model's throttle and you're having some serious fun!   

Actually I saw a version of this setup on an HO scale club layout about 15 years ago.  They built a wooden cab and a good size TV was installed in the front window.  While I didn't get a chance to operate it, I did watch the action for a while.