Author Topic: Point-to-point turnouts.  (Read 2101 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

wcfn100

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7820
  • Respect: +547
    • Chicago Great Western Modeler
Point-to-point turnouts.
« on: February 14, 2012, 09:12:45 PM »
0
In one of Armstrongs books, he says that if you can't get enough space between turnouts to avoid an 'S' curve, the next best thing is to locate the points as close to each other as possible.
_____________________
__________/___________
_________/     


Anyone have experience with this?

Jason

Brakie

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 637
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: 0
Re: Point-to-point turnouts.
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2012, 09:35:53 PM »
0
Jason,Most switches has enough straight between them to eliminate the "S" curve.

There's some things John made mistakes on including the so called "S" curve between switches.

Note the crossovers in my track plan.




There is no real concerns since there is a built in straight between the switches..The switches are Atlas C55 #5s.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 09:38:10 PM by Brakie »
Larry

Summerset Ry.

wcfn100

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7820
  • Respect: +547
    • Chicago Great Western Modeler
Re: Point-to-point turnouts.
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2012, 09:54:36 PM »
0
Here's a better diagram.



You can see the 'S' curve at the arrow. 

Jason

Brakie

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 637
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: 0
Re: Point-to-point turnouts.
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2012, 10:21:48 PM »
0
Sorry Jason but,That doesn't even qualify as a  "S" curve.

There is absolutely nothing there to worry about.

You want  to see S curves without straights?

/>
Larry

Summerset Ry.

ednadolski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3134
  • Respect: +398
Re: Point-to-point turnouts.
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2012, 11:16:26 PM »
0
You want  to see S curves without straights?

Toy train setups like those are one thing, but it's not advisable to generalize from that.  There are a lot of factors, such as the degree of curvature, length of the rolling stock, overhang and coupler swing, and so on.

Ed 

Brakie

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 637
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: 0
Re: Point-to-point turnouts.
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2012, 06:31:07 AM »
0
Ed,I showed those videos for one reason to show what a S curve looks like.Be assured I would never ever recommend such  S curves-not even on a train set layout setup on the floor.

What Jason is concerned about doesn't come close to a  S curve that would cause problems especially in  N Scale since the majority of the cars have truck mounted couplers.I see no problems with that curve in HO either even with 89' autoracks.

All "experts" is good for one thing and that is complicating the simple and overstating the obvious and John Armstrong is no different in his books.
Larry

Summerset Ry.

Chris333

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 13576
  • Respect: +2809
Re: Point-to-point turnouts.
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2012, 07:25:52 AM »
0
If your are hand laying you can get them pretty close together. Use the same 2 pieces of rail for both turnouts and use PC ties between the throw bars.

wcfn100

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7820
  • Respect: +547
    • Chicago Great Western Modeler
Re: Point-to-point turnouts.
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2012, 03:04:23 PM »
0
If your are hand laying you can get them pretty close together. Use the same 2 pieces of rail for both turnouts and use PC ties between the throw bars.

Well that's the reason I posted the question.  Building these as one piece is going to add quite a bit of time and it's also dictating the length of the module so I'd wanted to see if anyone had anything to say about it.


Jason

Brakie

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 637
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: 0
Re: Point-to-point turnouts.
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2012, 04:14:30 PM »
0
Jason,If it bothers you here's a simple solution..Use a small straight section between the switches.

Here's a CNN breaking news story.

I'm the valedictorian of the school of  lesson learn by hands on experience and not through books written by so called "experts".
Larry

Summerset Ry.

Chris333

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 13576
  • Respect: +2809
Re: Point-to-point turnouts.
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2012, 04:30:26 PM »
0
I know they put them pretty close together in real life:
http://www.shorpy.com/node/12328?size=_original

Have no idea now a model train will run through them.

bbussey

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7152
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +1112
    • www.bbussey.net
Re: Point-to-point turnouts.
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2012, 04:41:27 PM »
0
Technically wouldn't double crossovers be considered "S" curves?  There is a small token amount of straight trackage at the diamonds on FastTrack double x-overs, but that doesn't appear to hinder any body-mounted equipment.
Bryan Busséy
NHRHTA #2246
NSE #1117
www.bbussey.net


wcfn100

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7820
  • Respect: +547
    • Chicago Great Western Modeler
Re: Point-to-point turnouts.
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2012, 04:45:52 PM »
0
Jason,If it bothers you here's a simple solution..Use a small straight section between the switches.


Because that will makes things worse.

Here's the offset with a small piece of track.



The offset gets less as you move the points together.

If you want to say that's negligible and will never be an issue, that's great.   

Jason





wcfn100

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7820
  • Respect: +547
    • Chicago Great Western Modeler
Re: Point-to-point turnouts.
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2012, 04:53:02 PM »
0
Technically wouldn't double crossovers be considered "S" curves?  There is a small token amount of straight trackage at the diamonds on FastTrack double x-overs, but that doesn't appear to hinder any body-mounted equipment.

The #8 x-over on the FT template is 4" of straight track which is a 50' car.  And that's on 1 3/32" track centers.  Standard 1 1/4" centers would probably have enough straight for cars up to 60'.

I'm not trying to say it won't work or that I even have a problem with it.  I just want to know it's going to work before I spend the time building the turnout and definitely before I cut the lumber.

To put this in operating perspective.  The local CGW switcher uses this crossover to access the interchange track with the IC.  This is an operation that happens 6x a day.  Typical cuts of cars are 8-12 with the longest cars probably being 60'.

I wouldn't mind if someone told me this was a bad idea because it's cutting into my car storage on the interchange.  But if I move the turnout, it will have to go onto an additional module, which isn't part of the current plan and would require much more space to setup which I don't want.

Jason
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 05:04:34 PM by wcfn100 »

Brakie

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 637
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: 0
Re: Point-to-point turnouts.
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2012, 06:02:58 PM »
0
Jason,It would be best to couple the cars to check the track in question.

Frankly I wouldn't worry to much about since I would put a speed restriction on that section of track-just like the prototype..

One thing I learned over the years is our more equipment is forgiving that many realized.

Larry

Summerset Ry.

bbussey

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7152
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +1112
    • www.bbussey.net
Re: Point-to-point turnouts.
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2012, 11:00:35 PM »
0
The #8 x-over on the FT template is 4" of straight track which is a 50' car.  And that's on 1 3/32" track centers.  Standard 1 1/4" centers would probably have enough straight for cars up to 60'...

I'm installing a fleet of six FT #8 x-overs at the east end of the New Haven station trackage on my layout.  It's not operational yet.  But I did test the Broadway Limited through two of them - a double S so to speak - and it went through just fine.  They were built to the closer track centers.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 11:02:08 PM by bbussey »
Bryan Busséy
NHRHTA #2246
NSE #1117
www.bbussey.net