No PD4103 in N from CMW anytime soon, if ever

[bbussey]

Well the lone positive out of this is that it opens up the possibility of another FUD/resin bus project.  Below is the response to a query I sent regarding a possible PD4103 in N.  What is gleamed by reading between the lines is more telling than the response itself.  It seems their dilemma is balancing the need for expensive and intricate decorative schemes (painting and printing) with the need to keep the unit MSRP at $15 - not an easy task with the number of paint masks and printing pad hits required.  The HO version has separate "fluted" panels that can be painted separately - probably not practical in smaller scales, which make an N scale version cheaper to tool but far more costly to produce.  That also means they must make a lot of cars / trucks / buses to get the tooling amortization percentage down, which bumps up against how many of them they think they can sell.  Apparently, their analysis indicates the N scale market isn't large enough to risk the investment.

I also find interesting that they feel automobiles (of which there are multiple models that cover multiple decades) are a safer investment than buses (of which there are now two models, both transit).  At least they are still pushing the trucks/trailers.

When are we going to see the PD4103 in N scale?  I'm told that the Walthers exclusive is no longer in effect, and an intercity bus is needed in N scale.

They called me out of my office to answer this. I don't think we will see a PD4103 in N scale. Unfortunately, it is a matter of dollars. At this time, the n scale market cannot support the investment needed to develop the model.
Fortunately, Walthers supported the n scale TDH3610 bus... and in the coming months there will be more offerings from this n scale tool.

[wm3798]

Just like in real life... people would rather have cars than take a bus... ;D

But seriously folks, it would be nice to see some more variety in N scale offerings.  Maybe if they did a couple of special runs of the bus in Union Pacific paint, or a Christmas series, that would help!
Lee

[sizemore]

Wait, we have to paint it ourselves?!?! What?!

;D
The S.

[ljudice]

They should do a version with blanked out windows to duplicate tour busses or RV's...  It would actually take the vehicle into a later time frame.   Or they could to a Coke or John Deere bus.  Or an Army bus....

At least the new technologies are opening the door to some nice models of interesting things for those who can appreciate them!

- Lou

[daniel_leavitt2000]

This is one of those ehh moments. Now I wouldn't mind a pre-painted Greyhound bus, but I also don't mind painting one either. We know Bryan is interested in making this model, so it will come one way or the other.

[Mark5]

I know the dynamics of the Japanese market are different, but I'm amazed at all the high quality 1:150 vehicles done for Japanese "N scale" - relative to 1:160 offerings ...

[asarge]

No surprises there and they are not the only manufacturer taking that strategy with N scale.

[sirenwerks]

I for one won't mind painting my own model, as long as decals are available. Bryan, if they're not (admittedly, I've not done any research) I would ask that you consider making decals available yourself; partnering with a 3rd party to do so; or, at the least, making the graphics available as a downloadable (PDF or whatever) file so us plebes can print the decals on our own or have someone do it for us, one by one.

I think this idea applies to all sort of small or as-needed productions that can be released, all or in part, through the likes of Shapeways. Having the model is great, but being able to finish the model is very important. And like Marketing 101 always taught, the more barriers you remove from the customer having what they want, the more likely the product is to sell. Availability is one barrier, that Shapeways helps eliminate. Having decal availability in some form (pre-printed or file w/ links to one-off printers) is another. I know there's only so much hand-holding Bryan or any manufacturer can do, but some will definitely be helpful.

I would stress this notion to Bryan in considering production of a NE5 caboose or PD3000 cover hopper. Create the base of the model using a service such as Shapeways and have decals and the necessary detail etchings available on the website. Having pre-printed/etched product for sale, at least initially, is an option, and then when those run out, make the necessary e-files available, at minimal cost or free. And don't forget a PDF file with instructions.

Granted, it's a new (and somewhat untested) business model that will likely only find popularity with more capable and/or adventurous modelers, but something tells me it's A wave of the future. It's a boon in the respect that it removes certain overheads, most notably production, warehousing, and distribution chain. Of course, it means shifting some of the resources saved on those to product development and marketing, and it requires skills many current home producers don't have, namely CAD and online marketing skills. It will be a generational change, IMO.

Those that argue most consumers want RTR, they'll get no argument from me. But as the market stands now, manufacturers of RTR will only go so far to give actual road-based prototype accuracy and when it comes to modeling true prototypes, I'm ready to dive right in to get what I want. The NE5 is an example for me. I could paint an Atlas NE6 ad pretend, but I'll pay extra and provide the labor to get what an actual NE5 model, as there are considerable (IMO) differences. This is the resin kit of the future. A savvy basement manufacturer could create a seamless ordering system with dedicated partners of decals and etching, where a consumer could buy in one place and the order be routed to Shapeways and other partners to have all of the necessary parts sent from different points of production to the consumer. This, again, would remove even more barriers for the consumer by not forcing them to go to multiple 3rd party websites (where the manufacturer/marketer has no control of the experience they're selling) to place an order for one product.

Sorry for the wall of words...

[daniel_leavitt2000]

I would hope the PD300 would be a RTR model. I need about a dozen. I'll take a dozen more of the PD5000 whenever anyone gets to it.

[bbussey]

It makes more sense for a PD3000 and even the NE5 to be rendered as an injection-molded RTR model, as there are enough roads/schemes to justify both.  Since these buses would be polyurethane resin castings from FUD masters, rather than FUD models direct from Shapeways, the decals are a possibility.  Micro-Scale would be the logical source for the decals.  The minimum M-S run is 250 pieces, so the feasibly would be if the cost of the decal run is reasonable enough to spread over the much-smaller resin run.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

You could piggyback several projects onto one sheet, so that 250 could feed not just the Greyhoud buses but the next few projects as well. That should keep costs down.

[bbussey]

To do that, you would have to project forward on a number of bus projects, when it isn't clear at this point how successful the product line will be.  It takes nearly as long to design a simple static bus model as it does a freight car, due to the complex curvature of the body.  Also, the TDM4507 is first.  While there is sufficient interest to move forward with at least a small run, there were dozens of schemes painted on that model.  As it takes substantial time to research and draw artwork for decals, the cost isn't just in having them printed.  And this will not evolve to the point where it consumes precious time needed for the primary product lines.  If it were a viable major product line, CMW would be pursuing it.

What may make sense with the Scenicruiser is to put the three common schemes (1950s, 1960s and 1970s) on one mini-sheet and make that available with the model as well as separately, as long as the bus company approves and a license fee isn't excessive.  But the first bus step will be to move forward on the TDM4507 after the White Tower building is online.
 

[sirenwerks]

How about the few non-Greyhound owners of the TDM? Maybe you could consider decals for products already released? Decals for paint jobs for the XIH, G26, or even the upcoming X58 (or the 40' tank!) that are so obscure you know you'll never release them in a production run but you know there's folks out there who want them bad enough to paint and decal them themselves; alternate road number for releases you've made or will make soon for those who wish to renumber cars for a larger fleet; or some ESM-unrelated project you know people will buy decals for, like something for your NH buddies?

[bbussey]

Again, all that requires time and resources, most of which currently are invested in the X58 project.  That remains on a tight schedule with little margin for error if the pre-CNY January ship date is to be met.  Needed OEM components from other manufacturers must be paid for up front this month.  The initial tooling samples have to be assembled and put through the paces vigorously at the end of this month.  Printing artwork has to be finalized next month.  Paint masks for the Lehigh Valley cars must be paid for up front next month.  Advertising efforts have to be coordinated in the form of video and print copy beginning next month. 

The White Tower building (once I see the first shot) is self-sufficient since it is made-to-order through Shapeways.  The Buses take a little more planning, with the master coming from Shapeways and having the stepping wet-sanded out before being forwarded to Fine-N-Scale for resin casting.  And there is an a new Sovereign Modeler coming on board, with a unique project we're trying to push out before year end.  There is little time left for decal design, but I will explore the possibility for the PD4501.  It appears the Scenicruiser won't be released until early 2012 at this point, so there might be time to design some decals for it.

What 40' tank?  The only 40' tank we've released are the models we contracted Riva Rossi to produce for us way back at the end of the 1980s, which are long long gone.  Doesn't make sense to produce decals for that model, which was a quality piece for decades but is now dated when compared to current tooling.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

I wonder if we should chowdersource the decal project. Have us do the research and artwork and make it available from Microscale. We could do this on various resin projects moving forward. You sell more models, we get the schemes we want, Microscale sells decals that are in (minor) demand.

We sort of did this before with group buys for Highball Graphic sets that were only available in HO.