Tehachapi, BC

[jagged ben]

... WHAT?????  3/4" plywood under an N-scale yard???  (that's what I use too).  ...

Using something like 3/4" ply under an N-scale yard isn't about supporting weight.  It's about having a surface that stays relatively flat and doesn't warp.  Which is even more important in N scale than in G scale. 

[JSL]

I don't have any pictures of masonite in use for a yard, but I plan to use it. I know that of a few that use it and they swear by it. I will see if I can get pictures.

[robert3985]

Using something like 3/4" ply under an N-scale yard isn't about supporting weight.  It's about having a surface that stays relatively flat and doesn't warp.  Which is even more important in N scale than in G scale.

I agree.  That's why I use it too.  Solid.  Robust.  Easy to find and buy too.

[robert3985]

I don't have any pictures of masonite in use for a yard, but I plan to use it. I know that of a few that use it and they swear by it. I will see if I can get pictures.

Here's how I've used Masonite in a yard.  As splined subroadbed.  Athough it's sturdy and monolithic once glued together and in place, 3/4" ply is much quicker.  The only thing negative about plywood is that it's noisier than splined Masonite (which is very quiet I'm assuming because of its density and small cross-section in splined subroadbed form). 

However, for subroadbed in other non-yard/non-industrial areas, I swear by splined Masonite subroadbed.

Just for giggles, here's a photo of the underside of 1/3 of Echo Yard...the third that has the splined Masonite subroadbed:

[Seligman Sub]

More please! 

[GaryHinshaw]

More please! 

Ok, you asked for it!  Sadly I have nothing very exciting to report because 1) the school term is now in full swing and 2) I have let myself become distracted by rolling stock work. But I won't let that stop me from giving a tedious update anyway.   

Last week I did manage to finish the benchwork for the lowest level storage yard along the top wall:



As discussed below, this will house a 9-10 track, 16' long, stub-end overflow yard for swapping trains in & out of during sessions.  The yard-throat-to-be area is shown here:



The yard lead(s) will curve around to the left, run in front of the garage door and join the north and south staging yards just off to the left.  (See schematic below).  Soon I'll build some permanent shelves underneath the throat to house the power electronics, then I'll finally be able to route all the power busses neatly through the chase in the back corner.  (The layout has been unpowered for a few weeks now...  )

Last Friday, Professor Dance came over for a while to help me brainstorm and refine the main ops goals for TBC, while the lessons from session #1 were still fresh in our heads.  Of course, the main goal is to run long through-trains with helpers, in both directions on a single-track mountainous line.  Given this, there were two main issues on the table: 1) running long trains with helpers is risky, even more so when track is hidden. What can I do to minimize the risks while maintaining the challenges?  2) The terminal trackage is potentially overloaded and might get too congested during a session.  Is there any way to alter the plan to reduce congestion?

Here is the latest schematic:



Aside from some new labels, this differs from the previous version in that I was able to work in a direct connection between South Staging (which is in the helix under Tehachapi Loop) and the storage yard on the left (and pictured above).  Here are some notes on the current ops plan, including some comments on how the new connection figures in:

* Run up to 10 trains in each direction during a session, some of which will acquire manned helpers en route (somewhat outdated, but more interesting for the crews).  There will also be at least two local jobs per session serving Edison and Monolith.

* Southbound jobs originate in North Staging (right side of the schematic) which is a loop that represents Bakersfield.  UP trains would emerge clockwise and BNSF trains counter-clockwise, crudely representing Kern Junction, where the two lines join for the run over the Pass.  Both sides of the North yard throat will be visible, so crews can acquire their trains in the yard, with or without helpers, and run out to Edison and beyond (clockwise around the main line in the schematic) without running through hidden track.

* Northbound jobs originate in South Staging, the helix under the Loop shelf.  This route emerges to quasi-visible track at the middle-rear of the Loop shelf, and to truly visible track on the far right side of the Loop shelf, where the spine cars are in this shot:



The risk here is that, if the terminal manager brings the head of the train to the start of visible track, and the train has live helpers, the helper crew has a hard time seeing the rear of the train to judge the slack.  It's possible (but not necessarily desirable) for the helper crew to stand in the pit and look at the rear of the train over the top of the photo backdrop. That may become the standard protocol for NB trains.  An alternative is for the (experienced) terminal manager to run the helpers until more of the train is visible, then hand-off the throttle.

* Northbound jobs terminate in Bakersfield, and again, the crews should be able to enter the yard and tie down their trains without any issues.

* Southbound jobs terminate at the top of the South Staging helix and the crew hands off their train to the terminal manager.  The manager will run the train down the helix to the next slot in the inbound queue, which can hold about 4 trains.

* Terminal management will require some real-time flushing of North and South Staging into and out of the storage yard.  The connection from North Staging to storage was pretty straightforward: terminated trains could exit either end of the yard loop and head directly to storage, and new trains could come out of storage just as easily.   However, the route from South Staging to storage used to require a trip around the North Staging loop before heading to storage.  This not only lengthened the trip, but it also required an empty yard track and yard lead.  The new connection bypasses that entirely making the flushing of South Staging much more efficient and completely independent of North Staging.  It also means that the direct connection between North and South staging will only be used for continuous running or oddball moves.

Comments welcome, especially if you have experience running trains into and out of hidden trackage, and have any words of wisdom for me.

Oh, and I apologize for droning on.  I really do hope to get something photogenic to post one day (like actual scenery), but I think it's important to get a solid foundation in place before the veneer goes on, and that just takes time...

-gfh

[3DTrains]

Gary,

Could you instead attach helpers at Edison and detach at Tehachapi (Monolith) instead of run-through? Without a net, hidden helpers/DPUs would make me nervous for southbound trains on the return trip down to staging. Separate helper moves might make for an interesting addition to the op session.

Cheers!
Marc - Riverside

[ednadolski]

The risk here is that, if the terminal manager brings the head of the train to the start of visible track, and the train has live helpers, the helper crew has a hard time seeing the rear of the train to judge the slack.

With the Z-scale couplers installed, it gets pretty hard to judge the slack from any sort of distance (a corollary to the 3-foot rule I suppose).

With DPUs I'm finding that what works best for me is (a) body-mounted couplers, (b) speed-matched locos (I have BEMF off), and (c) load-balancing the train.  I can pretty much run a train in 'railfan mode' and it will run continually in a complete circuit up the loop and down the hidden staging helix, with virtually no adjustments to the throttle.  The only issues I see involve either misaligned couplers, or truck-mount issues, or the low-speed slinky oscillations.  (The Atlas #7 turnouts can be a bit problematic too -- I am thinking of replacing them with hand-built turnouts, but in the one main place the issue really is more about the track geometry.)


Ed

[basementcalling]

Hidden. Trackage. Is. Bad.

Can you add a mirror on the ceiling or a small video camera so helper crews could see their end of the train? I am thinking of installing the latter inside my single loops that gain elevation but are hidden. If not that, then what about sensors that light up LEDs on the fascia as a train moves past a point? The latter could be useful to extend the run offstage and slow the operators down. If that section is going to be congested, make the congestion an advantage.

For terminals, do the trains that are waiting to enter staging have a place to park off the main if needed? Perhaps a set of crossovers in the track running from the yard to the point where trains emerge would increase the route flexibility? But turnouts in hidden track may make things even worse.

I find it interesting that we are both searching for answers to similar questions on two layouts that have nothing prototypically in common other than era and the same color track bus wires.

[GaryHinshaw]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Gary,

Could you instead attach helpers at Edison and detach at Tehachapi (Monolith) instead of run-through? Without a net, hidden helpers/DPUs would make me nervous for southbound trains on the return trip down to staging. Separate helper moves might make for an interesting addition to the op session.

Cheers!
Marc - Riverside

This is exactly what we were thinking, as one option.  I'd need to add a helper pocket at summit, but I think that can be managed.  Trains with consisted DPU's, and ones with no helpers, are all still likely to appear as well.

With the Z-scale couplers installed, it gets pretty hard to judge the slack from any sort of distance (a corollary to the 3-foot rule I suppose).

I think there is also a lot less slack to judge (thankfully).  Of course it will be a while before all my equipment is converted... 

With DPUs I'm finding that what works best for me is (a) body-mounted couplers, (b) speed-matched locos (I have BEMF off), and (c) load-balancing the train.  I can pretty much run a train in 'railfan mode' and it will run continually in a complete circuit up the loop and down the hidden staging helix, with virtually no adjustments to the throttle. 

For the most part, I can too (especially when I'm railfanning alone).  But when you put 5 or 6 people in the room, some of whom are not always "careful", the chances for something to go wrong increase significantly.  Since the cost of failure is potentially high (e.g. all that hopefully-detailed equipment hitting the floor), there is a premium on reliability.  Aside from well-tuned equipment, it is important for operators to be able to see and hear their trains so they can react to a wheel on the ground, or what have you.  That gets tricky with a lot of people in the room.  [Why do I hear Mark's voice when I read this?  ]

Hidden. Trackage. Is. Bad.

Can you add a mirror on the ceiling or a small video camera so helper crews could see their end of the train? I am thinking of installing the latter inside my single loops that gain elevation but are hidden.

This is an option for the section at the back of the Loop shelf.  We will be able to test that some more at the next session.  Happily, the South Staging helix is mostly visible, so the stretches that are (effectively) hidden are each only about 1 train length.  The thing that makes the above stretch troublesome is that NB crews start their assignment there.  A mirror or camera may help a lot though.  By the same token, it may not be a big problem even without the extra visibility.  Just have to test it some more...

For terminals, do the trains that are waiting to enter staging have a place to park off the main if needed? Perhaps a set of crossovers in the track running from the yard to the point where trains emerge would increase the route flexibility? But turnouts in hidden track may make things even worse.

I think the terminals are pretty workable now.  North Staging will have 8 tracks: 4-5 will host SB trains at the start, and 2-3 can accept NB trains coming in.  The South Staging has two long NB tracks that can each hold 4 trains, and one SB track that can receive 4 trains.  It should be straightforward to cycle terminated train to storage and pull new trains from storage.  There is enough overall capacity (on paper) to handle the volume, especially with the new South-to-Storage connection.  But that needs to be tested too!  My plan going forward is to get the storage yard and South helix built and tested before moving on to the 1st deck.  This will really let me flesh out the potential weak points sooner rather than later.

Thanks again,
-gfh

[GaryHinshaw]

Wow, 3 months have sure flown by...  I finally have a few snippets of progress to report on the infrastructure for Tehachapi BC.  Over the holidays, I have been trying to make a push to get to the lower deck, where I will have some much needed temporary staging set up.  This, in turn, will facilitate further performance testing on some areas I'm a bit concerned about.

So far during the break, I have managed to permanently lay the track in the 1-turn helix that will connect the lower and upper decks.  With that expansion, I cut in a temporary turnout to tie one of the two tracks into the upper deck, as shown here:



This is looking along the very back of the Loop shelf.  From top to bottom: the stack train is sitting in Walong siding in Tehachapi Loop; the curved track below it is the approach to Tunnel 9 and the Loop; the lettered tracks are: A is the double track main heading into south staging; A' is the temporary shoo-fly that connects with A and forms a continuous run on the upper deck; B and C are the main and siding (nominally Woodford siding) that head down to the lower deck.   Soon I will add a #10 turnout where the template is to tie in track C as well.  Eventually, A' and the Atlas turnout will be removed and replaced with the permanent main line.

Here are two very busy shots looking from below:





In the first of these shots, A' is the shoo-fly (seen from below); A is the top of the staging helix (which currently only connects to A' in a loop); and B is the main from the lower deck.   You can see that a 15' grain train just crosses over itself on this loop.  The tracks currently extend just past the end of the grain train.  The second of these shots is looking towards the left, showing the suspended roadbed that extends to the lower deck.  (The rat's nest of feeders circled in green are associated with the temporary shoo-fly and will eventually be removed.)  The main line will ultimately continue down to Bealville, Caliente, and on, but for now it is going to end in temporary staging that I'm putting together from 'spare parts":



This will be an 8-track yard with 10'-12' storage tracks that will greatly enhance short-term ops.  One of the things I hope to test soon is how crews feel about running pushers in the 1-turn helix, which will eventually be right in the middle of the southbound climb.  (You can see the middle of the grain train in that loop, circled in blue.)  I should be able to leave some sight lines open to that section, so I think it will work out fine operationally.

I have all the track I need for the staging yard, so it shouldn't take too long to plop down something good enough for short-term use.  Then it will be time for shakeout session #2.   

Thanks for looking, and Happy New Year,
-gfh

[Philip H]

Gary,
That yard ladder is a thing of true beauty.

[Scottl]

Gary, it is nice to see this moving along.  The bench and track work are setting a foundation for reliable operations and are worth the time. 

[davefoxx]

Gary,

Don't you want to reconsider that yard ladder against the wall and behind several tracks?  If you're going to have problems down there, e.g., picking up derailed cars and servicing the switch machines, you probably don't want it in the back.  Bring the yard ladder to the front of the shelf, if possible.

DFF

[GaryHinshaw]

Dave - you are correct that it is problematic, but it's driven by two factors: 1)  the only C55 turnouts I have are LH #10    and 2)  this yard is only temporary (which probably means at least a year...) so I didn't want to bother with custom turnouts.  (I also wanted the lead to tie in smoothly to the existing mainline in the back corner.)  If it turns out to be a real problem, I won't have too much invested in it, and could redo it.

Phil, thanks for the kind words, but it is just a printed template...