Tehachapi, BC

[mark.hinds]

<snip>
Here is what the "chute" entrance into staging would look like:



I would plan to add more desert photos to the manila sections visible here.  Further comments welcome.

-gfh
<snip>

Gary,

Doesn’t the above image show a spot in your layout where 2 remote real-world locations (the loop and the area east of Monolith) are modeled adjacent to each other?  Therefore, you may want to consider depicting them in a way which emphasizes to the viewer that they are not actually adjacent in real life.  You can do this by “framing” each scene separately, by curving the backdrop of each scene out to the edge of the layout (as I plan to do in between my scenes 2 and 3).  Actually, I thought this was what Mark D was trying to show in his sketch above. 

If you did bring the “east of Monolith” backdrop out to the edge in this way, the track would have to penetrate the backdrop, and you would have to hide this penetration.  One standard way to do this is with a highway overpass.  Note that the prototype highway 58 crosses over the main line both east and west of Monolith, giving you 2 different prototypical overpasses to choose from (depending on whether you choose to view Monolith from the north or the south). 

FYI, I have a similar backdrop penetration in my Bakersfield scene, where the SP main line exits westbound under the Beale Street overpass.  I have mocked this up both full-scale, and also with a model, and am reasonably confident that it will be visually acceptable.  The small-scale mockup included a secondary backdrop seen through the opening under the bridge, separately lit to match the tint of the main backdrop, and including a forced-perspective view of the Bakersfield passenger station.  This type of visual trick can work if you have complete control of the viewing angle and lighting, as you would have in this situation. 

MH 

[mark dance]

Yes Mark ...this was what I was trying to convey. To physically and visually separate the left and right scenes by bringing the backdrop together to a point (or wider) at the layout's edge.

Md

[Coxy]

Yes Mark ...this was what I was trying to convey. To physically and visually separate the left and right scenes by bringing the backdrop together to a point (or wider) at the layout's edge.

Md

I like this approach better than scenically connecting the loop to Monolith.

[Have since reversed myself on this]

[GaryHinshaw]

While I probably didn't articulate my response very well, I definitely get the proposal for a more obvious divider between the scenes and can see the advantages.  The puzzle I have it how to make it work without being too obtrusive.  Perhaps this wider view will illustrate the challenge:



Since there is no valence over the upper deck, it is wide open to the ceiling.  (This was a conscious design choice to reinforce the notion of the wide open, sunny southwest.)  My intention has been to cut the wall stringers down to the mountain top level and let the blue walls represent the (seamless) sky.  The only way I can see to make the divider proposal work would be to add a sky board up to some fixed height and curve it around, as suggested.  I'm a bit leery of adding a new seam to the whole backdrop, and I'm not sure how I would manage the part along the Loop shelf.   Maybe I could just have sky board along the desert shelf and have it meet the front mountain layer on the Loop shelf.

Now imagine yourself a guest operator faced with the layout as depicted above: would you find the juxtaposition of these two distinct scenes confusing?  As you are descending the east slope desert, having just conquered the Pass, would you wonder why you were all the sudden back in the middle said hills? 

Thanks as always for the feedback,
-gfh

P.S. Looking at the shot above, I wonder if the Loop backdrop need to go a little higher, so the hill in the Loop (wood profile on the left) doesn't look too dominant...  Note also that the top of the garage door will soon be faced with Masonite, and both pieces will be painted the wall color.

[C855B]

...  Note also that the top of the garage door will soon be faced with Masonite, and both pieces will be painted the wall color.

I presume that the door has been rendered non-openable and you are going to remove the horizontal rails. Since you have a tension rod you can do that with no ill effect. My dad did exactly that when he converted our garage into a family room, even storing the rails and other hardware in the space between the door and the stud wall and paneling he put over it. When it came time to sell, the paneling came down, the rails went back up and everything worked just as before. Pretty slick.

[GaryHinshaw]

Actually the door is still partially operable - that's why the Masonite stops where it does.   It will open enough for the bottom to reach shelf height, in case I need to get anything large in or out.  The longer I live with it, the less it seems necessary though.   I really don't notice the rails when I'm standing in the room. I'm more conscious of the door top and tension rod and would like to cover that better.

[Scottl]

I did not remember seeing the rails in person, and I am tall.  It is funny, but the pictures make the space seem smaller to me than it is.

I still thnk some kind of physical topographic barrier in the corner of the benchwork, located in the approximate center of that photograph, would serve to help with this situation.  It would hide the exit of the desert tracks, and help hide the edge of the loop backdrop.  Nothing too imposing or out of scale for the scene, but to give more visual distance between the two sets of tracks.

[mark.hinds]

Earlier in the design process (2011) you seem to have decided to go with a multi-plane backdrop scheme.   Was this decision something you still feel strongly about, or is it something which could be changed at this late date? 

If it were feasible to change that decision and convert to a single-plane backdrop, then a constant-height skyboard behind the entire upper level (including behind the loop shelf) might be a visually effective substitute for a valence.  In turn, where needed, this skyboard could then be brought out to the layout edge to emphasize scene separation, as in this situation. 

I probably should have made this suggestion back in 2011, but I wasn’t following your thread back then (may not even have been on Railwire).   

<snip>
Now imagine yourself a guest operator faced with the layout as depicted above: would you find the juxtaposition of these two distinct scenes confusing?  As you are descending the east slope desert, having just conquered the Pass, would you wonder why you were all the sudden back in the middle said hills? 
<snip>

Not confused, of course.  I guess it's just a question of what the layout owner feels is an acceptable level of abstraction.  Since I have been attracted to your very interesting construction thread, I guess I just can't help trying to convert you to my personal preferences on this particular issue...

MH

[ednadolski]

One standard way to do this is with a highway overpass.  Note that the prototype highway 58 crosses over the main line both east and west of Monolith, giving you 2 different prototypical overpasses to choose from (depending on whether you choose to view Monolith from the north or the south).

This was my impression as well -- something where the trains on the upper tracks enter/exit by an underpass that represents a modeled portion of Hwy 58.   I'm not sure if there is enough space, but perhaps that could also make use of some forced perspective and judicious hill+tree placement?  Seems Hwy 58 could serve as a natural separator between layers of scenery/backdrop.   Might be worth a quick mockup to see if/how things can fit.

Ed

[GaryHinshaw]

I'm more than happy to have people suggest changes.  That's the main reason for having this thread.

I'd be happy with a single plane backdrop except that I still need a way to hide the staging entrance.  I think the multi-plane scheme basically works in this context (unpopulated, undulating hills).  It's really just the transition, but even so, I'm not unhappy with the current scheme.  An overpass and/or a sky board are definite possibilities that I will keep on the list.

As a reminder, my vision is that the desert shelf represents the wide open stretch from Warren to Mojave,  and the "chute" sort of represents the outskirts of Mojave.  The goal is to try to leave this stretch as barren as the prototype. 


Gary

[mark.hinds]

I'm more than happy to have people suggest changes.  That's the main reason for having this thread.

I'd be happy with a single plane backdrop except that I still need a way to hide the staging entrance.  I think the multi-plane scheme basically works in this context (unpopulated, undulating hills).  It's really just the transition, but even so, I'm not unhappy with the current scheme.  An overpass and/or a sky board are definite possibilities that I will keep on the list.

As a reminder, my vision is that the desert shelf represents the wide open stretch from Warren to Mojave,  and the "chute" sort of represents the outskirts of Mojave.  The goal is to try to leave this stretch as barren as the prototype. 


Gary

Just to give you another option, here's a suggestion as to positioning a single-plane backdrop.  The assumption is that the increasing elevation of the south slope of Tehachapi Creek would be modeled so as to cover the 2 sub-roadbed sections in front of the garage door.  If this was done, it would hide the place where the backdrop jumps over the track.  I understand that your visible track below the loop disappears into a cut around the "57.8", per one of your previous mock-up images (with the cardboard strips). 

I still think the highway overpass mechanism might be the best way to hide the staging entrance.  Exactly which overpass depends on where you decide that the north slope scene ends. 



MH

[GaryHinshaw]

Thanks for the sketch Mark!  That's definitely a viable concept.  On the subject of the transition treatment, here is another quick & dirty concept that just treats the end of the desert scene as an extension of the Loop shelf fascia:



Recall that the track where the DPU sits is a bridge over Tehachapi creek, and the scenery/fascia rise on either side.  This scheme avoids the 'curved backdrops meeting in space' problem I was having with the other suggestions.  The portion to the left of the red line would be standard fascia color, the portion to the right may be that too, or desert photos, or an overpass...

Thoughts?  Sadly I'm on the road for the next 5 days (hence the rush job), so this will have to be it for a while.
-gfh

[jagged ben]

If it were me, I think I might do the highway overpass idea, but at an angle.  Referencing your last photo, there would be a straight line vertical transition in the fascia exactly where you've drawn your red line.  The fascia passing over the autoracks would angle towards the garage door, and be roughly in line with the camera angle and thus invisible in the picture.    The highway overpass would sit next to it, and you'd be looking at the butt end of the highway.  You'd do desert photos on that part of fascia so that if you took a photo you'd see that over the overpass.  Maybe you'd put a very sharp radius curve in the paper at the back corner, so that you don't see a line there.

The advantages are that with typical viewing angles for both scenes you wouldn't be looking so directly at the fascia, and that the 'tunnel' underneath the overpass would be more invisible.  You could also photograph another foot or so of the desert scene without having the end fascia in the photo.   Also the proto highway overpass at the far end of the valley is at an angle with respect to the railroad (albeit opposite orientation).

[Scottl]

That is a big improvement in my mind, but I would extend it around the fascia to give a gradual transition to the emergent desert trackage.  If you want a bridge in there and a backdrop behind, that is fine.

Here is a really crude way to consider it.

[mark.hinds]

Thanks for the sketch Mark!  That's definitely a viable concept.  On the subject of the transition treatment, here is another quick & dirty concept that just treats the end of the desert scene as an extension of the Loop shelf fascia:

<image removed>

Recall that the track where the DPU sits is a bridge over Tehachapi creek, and the scenery/fascia rise on either side.  This scheme avoids the 'curved backdrops meeting in space' problem I was having with the other suggestions.  The portion to the left of the red line would be standard fascia color, the portion to the right may be that too, or desert photos, or an overpass...

Thoughts?  Sadly I'm on the road for the next 5 days (hence the rush job), so this will have to be it for a while.
-gfh

That could work.  It seems to be a bit less neat and tidy as a scene separator, though.  What would you do with the north slope terrain when it hits the extended (right side of the red line) valence?  If you glued a north slope backdrop to the extended valence, the sky would terminate along the irregular line defined by the loop terrain on the other side, and that might look strange.  When you get back, try mocking it up in Photoshop. 

I think I see what you mean about the "curved backdrops meeting in space" issue, though.  It works on my layout, because all scenes have explicit vertical valence boundaries.  In your case, that one point would be the only vertical boundary, and it might look a bit lonely all by itself...  On the other hand, there are lots of precedents for this, with one being the NEB&W "State Line Tunnel" scene depicted in the September 1989 MR on page 84+.  They bring the curved backdrops out to the edge, and I don't think they use an upper valence. 



MH