Kato's Anti-Eastern Bias

[Mark5]

Mr. Bussey is absolutely right.

To be blunt, if I could not get enough stuff to model N&W, I would not be model railroading.

[MichaelWinicki]

I'd rather see product decorated for small roads available and slightly subsidized by the paint schemes for the common roads, as opposed to everything at a lower price but decorated only for UP and BNSF.  New Haven used to be one of those "small obscure roads" prior to twenty years ago, so I can sympathize with those having to custom decorate everything for their rosters.  Thankfully Atlas fills much of that void.  Greater diversity attracts more clientele.

Yeah, there probably is some subsidizing of smaller roads going on, but I wouldn't think that it's as much as what is perceived.  I mean, the innards and trucks are the same... it comes down to the painting/decorating of the shell.  I can't think the painting/decorating of a couple hundred NH shells would be that much more per shell, than say painting/decorating 500 UP shells.

[MichaelWinicki]

Mr. Bussey is absolutely right.

To be blunt, if I could not get enough stuff to model N&W, I would not be model railroading.

That's a pretty good point.

I think a lot of us would fall into that group if say all we could get were UP, ATSF, BN and BNSF.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I know you're being rhetorical Bryan, but for those who don't know, it's because, at least as far as freight cars go, a MILW boxcar is still good for BF&W, PRR and ATSF modelers, while an ATSF locomotive has little appeal for PRR modelers.

[CBQ Fan]

What we don't know, I think, is how a production run breaks down. For round numbers if the make a run of 4000 total units and 1000 are ATSF, 1000 are BNSF and 1000 are UP while the remaining 1000 are made up of 4 smaller runs of 250 each and that adds 10 bucks to the cost of my engine, I would rather not have to pay the extra cash to accomodate someone else.  Now to be fair if Atlas did a run of SP&S and charge 10 bucks more than my CB&Q unit I would gladly pay because I know the demand is not as great for the SP&S.  Freight cars I think are a whole different matter and well passenger cars are a topic unto themselves!

[Puddington]

Just remember that changing a paint scheme has far less impact of per unti cost that changing a molded on or hand applied feature. The economy of scale rule for smaller paint runs should have less impact on overall price than lets say, a additional fan or D/B blister.

[MichaelWinicki]

What we don't know, I think, is how a production run breaks down. For round numbers if the make a run of 4000 total units and 1000 are ATSF, 1000 are BNSF and 1000 are UP while the remaining 1000 are made up of 4 smaller runs of 250 each and that adds 10 bucks to the cost of my engine, I would rather not have to pay the extra cash to accomodate someone else.  Now to be fair if Atlas did a run of SP&S and charge 10 bucks more than my CB&Q unit I would gladly pay because I know the demand is not as great for the SP&S.  Freight cars I think are a whole different matter and well passenger cars are a topic unto themselves!

I doubt that its anywhere close to $10 more per unit to paint and decal a different run of shells.

I mean you take a loco (without decoder) that retails for $125... Then Atlas is probably pocketing $50 per unit.

That $50 has to not only cover the cost of all the parts in that loco, in addition to the painting and finishing, but it also needs to cover the shipping from the orient to the US and of course the profit Atlas needs to make on each unit in order to stay a viable company.

Like I said, I doubt it costs $10 more to add a run of NP locos to a batch of ATSF and UP locos.

[Mark5]

and that adds 10 bucks to the cost of my engine,

Personally, I'm pretty sure that you're way off (ie way too high) on this. What do you have to back up this assertion?

[sirenwerks]

Hmmm, I think I'd rather pay $20 less than Brian to get an undec unit (rather than help pay for his CB&Q unit) and use the savings to support paint and decal companies, and probably still have change left over to add the prototype specific details. Win-win.

[CBQ Fan]

One, I was using easy numbers for easy math

Two, I was told by a large vendor that the reason Atlas engines prices keep climbing is due to subsidizing small roads and the smaller numbers of the total production percentage they are.

Just trying to illustrate a point, not give a financial report!   

[bbussey]

What we don't know, I think, is how a production run breaks down. For round numbers if the make a run of 4000 total units and 1000 are ATSF, 1000 are BNSF and 1000 are UP while the remaining 1000 are made up of 4 smaller runs of 250 each and that adds 10 bucks to the cost of my engine, I would rather not have to pay the extra cash to accomodate someone else.  Now to be fair if Atlas did a run of SP&S and charge 10 bucks more than my CB&Q unit I would gladly pay because I know the demand is not as great for the SP&S.  Freight cars I think are a whole different matter and well passenger cars are a topic unto themselves!

Well, I do know, and I can tell you that it's more of reaching the total-production-run quantity than it is "squeezing in" the "lesser" roads.  There is only so much Union Pacific that will sell at a given time, regardless of its popularity.

The additional costs are basically in the artwork setup charges and paint masks.  You're talking dimes per unit as opposed to dollars per unit.  I don't think another 25 cents per Union Pacific diesel is going to make or break the sale for anyone.

Freight and passenger equipment production runs are no different, other than starting from a different cost point.

Two, I was told by a large vendor that the reason Atlas engines prices keep climbing is due to subsidizing small roads and the smaller numbers of the total production percentage they are.

The first reason is incorrect; the second is partially accurate in that the production run overall is smaller (as opposed to smaller quantities per road within the production run).  Plus, production costs overall are climbing regardless of the size of the production runs.

[MichaelWinicki]

Well, I do know, and I can tell you that it's more of reaching the total-production-run quantity than it is "squeezing in" the "lesser" roads.  There is only so much Union Pacific that will sell at a given time, regardless of its popularity.

Good point.

Maybe the Atlas MSRP's would be even higher if they didn't have the benefit of selling a few hundred extra loco's on each run featuring less known road names.

[CBQ Fan]

Freight and passenger equipment production runs are no different, other than starting from a different cost point.

The first reason is incorrect; the second is partially accurate in that the production run overall is smaller (as opposed to smaller quantities per road within the production run).  Plus, production costs overall are climbing regardless of the size of the production runs.

There is still a flaw in how Atlas is handling their business as their MSRP is rising faster and by greater amounts than their compitition.  The one thing they do different is offer more smaller lines more often than others.

[Hyperion]

There is still a flaw in how Atlas is handling their business as their MSRP is rising faster and by greater amounts than their compitition.  The one thing they do different is offer more smaller lines more often than others.

It's only a "flaw" if they're not satisfied with the resulting sales figures.

If the demand is relatively inelastic, and Atlas is selling almost as many locos at $140 as it is at $100, there's no "flaw" there at all.  There's simply capitalizing on the demand of your product.  And only Atlas knows how it's stuff is selling in total.

Besides, I think it's fairly obvious that a lot more than some paint is involved when your product price goes up by 30%/$30 vs the competition.  There's too many variables that come into play to point at a singular business model difference as being a driver.

[Bob Bufkin]

I think you should purchase the cars and locomotives you really want now.  With the price of oil going up every day, the price of all model railroads prodeucts is sure to follow.