Intermountain forgets N scale in February

[Mark5]

Virtually any Kato offering of their SD 40's, -2's or 45's is buying a fix me up....... They have serious omissions, paint and livery errors, handrail errors, filter and cover errors or omissions... yet I don't hear a huge outpouring of angst against them...just IM.....is it ok to give Kato yet another pass on their products ?

Who gives Kato a pass?

I could post another long list of Kato's shortcomings on the above models, but we should all be aware of these by now.

[Brakie]

Oddly there are those that fully believe Kato can do no wrong..

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I don't know, I think people do complain about those too. You heard the uproar over all the cut corners and poor color choices on their recent SD45s, didn't you?

That's also the reason that, when they first came out, I changed my order for CR SD40s to undecs, because I was very unhappy with Kato's CR blue choice. Since then, I did also get some painted ones, but again, only at fixer up prices.

I also feel that there's a big difference between road specific details missing and general build quality of the things that they do attempt.

The giant gap behind the cab on the IM SD45-2s, the "dent" in the cab roof, and the brittle dusty handrails bother me MUCH more than a missing radio antenna or cab signal box. Why? Because the amount of work that goes into adding an antenna is a LOT different than the bondo job I'm gonna have to do on the roof to get it looking right.

[Mark5]

Kato SD40, SD40-2, and SD45 (I have sample of all of these, as they are best) Short list: the tooling is dated, the number boards won't accept scale numberboard decals (they're too short), The fans are a bit off (diameter a bit too small IIRC), the hoods are a little fat.  The clincher: some are incredibly hard to find, especially in undec (the early SD40-2 was last released 11 years ago, the SD45 was finally run after 14 years lost in the Kato tooling warehouse (but no undecs!).

I like the Intermountain locos that I do have (ABA set of WM speed F7s, and a SP TM). But, on all the IM hood units I've seen, the walkways are as smooth as butter, and they glue glue glue. I think the hood units are a bit overpriced and Ed has noted some of the problems with the SD45-2 that you really would not expect from a premium priced product. For the SD40T-2 I waited until the price came down to a level that I felt matched my expectations from the model before buying.

Do the new Canadian SD40-2WWWW have smooth walkways?

I will buy a product from any manufacturer if that product meets a need and the model is or can be modified (taking into account price) to satisfy my expectations.

[wcfn100]

Can't paint handrails.........? Guess you'll never buy that crap that Kato sells......

Nothing to do with the actual painting except that I have enough projects already.

Here's my issues.

1. I'm tired of constantly having to fix mistakes from the same company.  I've stopped buying ANY decorated models from IM and that has already paid off in a huge way.

2. I don't like having to take apart finished models that are glued together. With a Kato model I can have the handrails ready for paint in a few minutes without the worry of breaking anything.

3. Trying to paint match a factory model is a long process made longer when the paint on the model isn't really the right color to begin with.

As for Kato, I was driving the wagon on the SD45 bash so I don't know what you are talking about.  But this thread isn't about Kato, it's about Intermountain and MTL box cars.  

Jason

[Puddington]

Nothing to do with the actual painting except that I have enough projects already.

Here's my issues.

1. I'm tired of constantly having to fix mistakes from the same company.  I've stopped buying ANY decorated models from IM and that has already paid off in a huge way.

2. I don't like having to take apart finished models that are glued together. With a Kato model I can have the handrails ready for paint in a few minutes without the worry of breaking anything.

3. Trying to paint match a factory model is a long process made longer when the paint on the model isn't really the right color to begin with.

As for Kato, I was driving the wagon on the SD45 bash so I don't know what you are talking about.  But this thread isn't about Kato, it's about Intermountain and MTL box cars.  

Jason

Actually, it was just about IM and their releases until it went 40 degrees to port

[Hyperion]

I don't see any general belief that "Kato can do no wrong" aruond here.

I think there's only one person here that I'd call an unapologetic Kato fan, and I don't mean that as a bash to him, he has his reasons and they're sound.  And when you look at the relatively low pricing they have thesedays as everyone else has gone up, they're really not bad for what you get.  IM is a different story.

I picked up a KCS SD45 a couple weeks ago finally because I got it for under $40.  And I can't speak for how it runs, but that $40 is about what I'd call a fair price for it honestly based on its general appearance.  I'd say, at best, it's on-par with 10+ year-old Atlas tooling that you can pick up off the 'Bay for $30-50 all day long, but in many areas it's quite lacking compared to many things made in the past couple decades.  Soft details and thick paint are not a good combination.  When one sees what the injection-molded plastic model makers are doing thesedays with slide-mold technology in all scales with exponentially more parts at fractions of the price I really wonder what I'm paying for (I'm sure market size plays a role) at $120+/unit.  And that comment doesn't pertain just to IM but also Atlas' new expensive releases too.

Oh well, at least I've been pleased with the FVM units.

[Puddington]

My point was (is) that we, as a modeling community can and do find issues with virtually all the n scale products out there; no one is perfect. IM seems to be one of a small handful of suppliers that is a particular lightining rod for a few pundits and Kato seems to slide (in my opinion) by most people's commentary even though I believe that they now produce average, at best, stuff.

Didn't mean to open the bucket of worms.

[wcfn100]

My point was (is) that we, as a modeling community can and do find issues with virtually all the n scale products out there; no one is perfect.

Right, so thread which focuses on one manufacturer doesn't imply that the other companies don't have their own issues.  Anyone who puts Kato in some sort of class above the rest is obviously only concerned with running qualities, which is fair enough. Kato has proven themselves even if there's an occational sputter.  IM probably recieves more critsim than Kato just by sheer volume of product and in my case, they've actually done roadnames I'm interested in so I take notice.  If Kato ever did more than three road names a year on their locomotives, you'd see a lot more threads, especially if they continue this trend of poor artwork.



Jason   

[lock4244]

Do the new Canadian SD40-2WWWW have smooth walkways?

Yup... I noted that within 60 seconds of receiving my first. WTF? How does that slip by QC? Maybe someone at IM actually thinks that we all skate all the time up here and therefore, tread is bad? I never said they were perfect, but as I've maintained all along, no one else will ever do one RTR. They capture the feel of the unit well enough, but on close inspection would have their fidelity FRA card pulled.

[Brakie]

Right, so thread which focuses on one manufacturer doesn't imply that the other companies don't have their own issues.  Anyone who puts Kato in some sort of class above the rest is obviously only concerned with running qualities, which is fair enough. Kato has proven themselves even if there's an occational sputter.  IM probably recieves more critsim than Kato just by sheer volume of product and in my case, they've actually done roadnames I'm interested in so I take notice.  If Kato ever did more than three road names a year on their locomotives, you'd see a lot more threads, especially if they continue this trend of poor artwork.



Jason   

I made a mistake once and said something negative about Kato..I was raked over the coals and back over the steaming cinders.

[Mark5]

I made a mistake once and said something negative about Kato..I was raked over the coals and back over the steaming cinders.

Hehe, I've nearly been tarred and feathered for the same. ;D The types that like to tell me what I can and can't see. :

[Puddington]

There is a "cult like" group of Kato-ites that will defend Kato regardless of their error or omission. The GS 4 problem was a prime example. Had IM or almost anyone else released a locomotive with the issue they had they would have been flayed and most likely never have recovered from it on the boards. (Atlas being the only exception) Kato hid in the sand for quite some time before responding in public.... and the Kato-ites praised their forthright and frank response.....um....I don't think so.

Hey; everyone makes a boo boo sometimes and Kato is no exception; we need not flay anyone for an error; we need not attack Kato for their errors and omissions but Kato is "perfect" in the eyes of many and can do no wrong.....Well; in my opinion "they ain't".....so welcome to the league of ordinary suppliers Kato.....

Now that wil get you stuffed, roasted and served at the table of the Kato-hoics.............

[Denver Road Doug]

There is definitely a double-standard to critizing model railroad products, and it usually has to do with whether or not it's important to that person.   It's easy(er) to defend the manufacturers when the product in question isn't important to you, but if it's "the one" model you've been waiting for 20 years....well, they have to get it right at all costs!  

I tend to get chastised for criticizing paint/lettering colors and for posting O-scale size photos of N-scale models.  I won't hardly do the latter any more.   My griping about color has helped....Intermountain has at least in some cases painted ATSF and BNSF covered hoppers a more correct color.  And BTW Kato still continues to butcher the BNSF Heritage II paint scheme with their yellow-orange lettering.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Post the O-scale sized photos here Doug.

I know there are a dedicated group of people who think that Kato's ***** doesn't stink, but I don't think they tend to hang around here. I think the Railwire tends to be fairly critical across the board, and I like to think that most of our opinions are backed up by evidence.