A segmented layout?

[daniel_leavitt2000]

The oil tank is very much in use.

Water has always been a problem with the house. The diveway is paved right up to the side and the back of the house, so I doon't think the water issue has anything to do with rain from the roof. The main issue is I have a stream running next to the driveway under a culvert. That stream continues on and turns right at the property line behind the house. So its a high water table issue, along with some cracks in the cement. I plan on putting in a french drain inside the basement along with a sump pump. I will patch the crasks at the same time.

[DKS]

I just looked up tankless water heaters on ebay. A bunch for around $200, but I haven't done any research. I don't need a H2O heater, but I like to save money on gas.

AFAIK, tankless are only gas or electric. I have the feeling there's no gas service here, and an electric tankless might cost more to run than a conventional oil-fired tank.

I also installed one in a condo--they're a PITA to maintain, and the flow rate is substantially reduced, unless the technology has improved over the last decade.

Getting back to the layout, I think a segmented layout wouldn't be a bad thing. The separations would add a sense of distance between the points of interest. The only issue I can see is following trains.

[inkaneer]

The oil tank is very much in use.

Water has always been a problem with the house. The diveway is paved right up to the side and the back of the house, so I doon't think the water issue has anything to do with rain from the roof. The main issue is I have a stream running next to the driveway under a culvert. That stream continues on and turns right at the property line behind the house. So its a high water table issue, along with some cracks in the cement. I plan on putting in a french drain inside the basement along with a sump pump. I will patch the crasks at the same time.

You must have an older house.  Newer developments take ground water as you describe into account and institute measures to correct it .  Older dwellings were built with no regard.  Basements were places where you hid the mechanicals for the house and maybe some storage.  They were never intended to be liveable space.  As you describe it I doubt if your efforts to eliminate the water will be successful.  Water flows where it will and will exploit any area of least resistance.  I had a similar problem as you.  I put an addition onto my home with a full basement underneath.  Water filled the trenches for the footers and had to be repeatedly pumped out. Once the construction was done I noticed water was perculating up through about 6 inches of concrete floor.  Somehow it managed to get around the vapor barrier we installed. Underground water is under pressure.  I put in an exterior French drain to collect the water and run it out to the storm sewers.  That sort of solved the problem but we still get water during a heavy rain.  My solution to the problem was simple, MOVE!  


Getting up in our years the wife and I sought out homes with one floor living.  We had one area in mind that offered several advantages.  The builder was willing to build a carriage home that we liked but because of the location he would have to build it with a basement.  So now my wife gets the one floor living she wants and I am going to get a nice dry clear span space of about 1500 sq. feet [30 X 50].   I realize that not everyone can solve this problem as I did but if you can swing it I would recommend it.

[DKS]

OK, here are a couple of options. First, I'd completely enclose the utilities in is own room, with permanent walls and door, just spacious enough to perform regular maintenance comfortably. It works well to connect this room to the wall with the electrical service, and moving the water heater allows the utility room to be a little smaller than it might otherwise (its precise location depends on what kind of access the boiler needs). I think you'll be thankful for doing this--I know I was in the first house I had, which was similar to yours in terms of layout limitations. The finished-off utility space will make the layout room look cleaner, and not having removable walls and access panels will be a bonus for anyone having to service the utilities. You could then optionally run a sneak-through for the mainline--or not, depending on how you want to set up ops.

For the front porch access, I'd install a kind of Dutch door, that is a regular door split in half, so you can have a duck-under across the door and still have access to the porch space via the bottom section of door, which can open independently of the top half. (Optionally, you might think about re-hanging the door to open out instead of in.) The porch space I think is absolutely ideal for a staging yard.

I'd also permanently enclose the oil tank with walls and an access door. (The enclosure can be larger if more access is needed without severely impacting layout space.) Like the utility room, this creates a finished space, and also gives you sturdy surfaces on which to hang a layout. I'd also put a lift-out section across the back yard access doorway. The short wall above the back yard access does the same as the oil tank enclosure.
 


If the water heater can't move, then the utility space can be re-configured to accommodate it. This creates a bit of a "dead zone" in the corner behind the utilities, which I'd use for layout access.
 


At the end of the day, I think your layout space may be better than you think. I look at this and I don't see a "segmented layout," just one that's shaped to suit the space.

[conrail98]

Doesn't seem very segmented:
http://macrodyn.com/ldsig/wiki/index.php?title=Cascade_Subdivision_-_N_-_Mark_Lestico#Track_Plan

You have to look at the way he built it. Each wall and peninsula supporting infrastructure was built separately and in 8' sections, I believe. It can come apart very easily and each "segment" sits on top of stainless steel shelving,

Phil

[Ian MacMillan]

I have questions about the "water heater" and appliances.

Is it actually a water heater or is it a storage tank? On my oil system, because my contractor decided to use a below spec boiler that was not in the system plans, I had to have a storage tank installed in the system. Newer oil boilers are pretty much on demand systems already if you get the BTU's and flow right for the systems demands. Since mine underspec'd (still undergoing thru legal BS with this contractor 5 years after we built the house and several other screw ups of his) it could not keep up with say a 15min shower's hot water demand. The 50 gal reserve tank helps to keep the hot water in check. It has 3 pipes, inlet, outlet and "cool water recycle to boiler", so it is pretty easy to move. 

How old is the boiler, and how big? You may even be able to have a contractor come and check it out and see if you even need the water heater/storage tank. But I would move the tank to the left like Dave put it in the drawing.

If I was to win the lottery I'd take out my boiler and reserve tank and get the system that was supposed to be installed.

You have to look at the way he built it. Each wall and peninsula supporting infrastructure was built separately and in 8' sections, I believe. It can come apart very easily and each "segment" sits on top of stainless steel shelving,

Phil

Exactly. Dan however is talking about the other segmented where you have a scenic element, and then the trains just run off of it on a track to another one so it would look basically like there are 4 stand alone modules in the basement.  So basically you have 4 modules connected by scenicless "shoefly" tracks.

[conrail98]

Exactly. Dan however is talking about the other segmented where you have a scenic element, and then the trains just run off of it on a track to another one so it would look basically like there are 4 stand alone modules in the basement.  So basically you have 4 modules connected by scenicless "shoefly" tracks.

Ah, like a shadow-box type of look then. I know there's one out there that's referenced a lot, but can't remember the name of it,

Phil

[Chris333]

When I think "segmented" I think something like a 2x6' section of layout with a 1x4" bridge going to the next section 6 feet away. That trackplan seems completely connected together.


Guess I'll stick with my water tank.

[mmyers]

How about moving the oil tank to the under porch storage? Main consideration would be locating a filler line. If that end is above grade, should not be a problem. Oil gravity feeds to the boiler. That line could run along the wall where it meets the floor to the boiler.

 Next question is how old is the boiler and hot water heater? Is the water heater powered by gas, electric, or like Ian noted, just a tank supplied by the boiler? If it's gas or electric and you go with relocating the hot water heater, have a new one installed. Labor would be the same. Spend money on the old one, it's bound to fail soon.  A 90+ gas unit wouldn't need the chimney. Just a PVC exhaust pipe that could exit out the side wall. You have to be careful closing in the boiler and fuel fed hot water heaters. They need combustion air so the room can't be tight. Louvre'd doors and/or vents should be planned.

Martin Myers

[DKS]

I've moved oil tanks. Not recommended unless you have deep pockets and permits out the wazoo.

[Ian MacMillan]

I've moved oil tanks. Not recommended unless you have deep pockets and permits out the wazoo.

I believe MA is like NH in that you can move it sans permits if you do it yourself and do not use a contractor.  And regardless...its MA...money always makes people look the other way...

[DKS]

If Dan has the wherewithal to move it under the porch, that would surely be a boon to the layout space. What remains to be seen is if there's room to turn the thing after getting it through the door. If the drawing is close to reality, it ain't gonna happen.

[mmyers]

Inspector doesn't need to know if it never leaves the house. Hardest part is getting it empty enough to move. With proper planning, shouldn't take more than a Saturday to finish the job. Building inspectors around here don't work past 2:30 on Friday.

[mmyers]

If Dan has the wherewithal to move it under the porch, that would surely be a boon to the layout space. What remains to be seen is if there's room to turn the thing after getting it through the door. If the drawing is close to reality, it ain't gonna happen.

Looks tight. May be able to turn it on end as long as there's enough head room on the doorway. Tip it back onto its legs after turning in the doorway. 250 gallon tank should be about 6 feet long, 200 gallon would be about a foot shorter.

[DKS]

Hardest part is getting it empty enough to move.

That's for sure. Had to move remove a tank once that wasn't empty, but the remaining oil had sat so long it was sludge. Took four of us and two come-alongs to get it out. Oh, and we had to remove the stairs and punch holes in the first floor ceiling to mount the come-alongs to the studs.