3 poles for all!

[slickwillie]

How do you think I ended up with said Heavy Mountain and MP15's? 

[victor miranda]

How do you think I ended up with said Heavy Mountain and MP15's? 

hohohoho!
another satisfied customer!

victor

[lashedup]

[Ian MacMillan]

I like turtles.

[FloridaBoy]

First, let me say unequivocally that technically I am way below many of you guys, like Victor and others, and as Clint Eastwood says, "A man has to know his limitations".  Second, I am a person whose characteristics is to know a wide range of topics but have little depth of knowledge, so I can carry on basic conversations and communicate freely at elementary levels, but when the topic gets deep and heavy, I tend to be a little lost.

I am an N scaler since about '82, and have a large large inventory of engines (500+/-) and rolling stock (1300), which is not meant to impress, but I try to keep them well maintained and preserved, and run as good as the day sold or even better.  I can field strip some locos, and wouldn't even remove the cab of others, and probably have ruined more Bachmann Northerns trying to take them apart or repair them.  But generally, I am pretty successful in keeping my locos repaired.

I have collected an abundance of spare parts of which now I am trying to do the "ultimate" sort and organize them more than they are now.  I have about 50 motors both 3 and 5 pole which were done over the years, including present, and can attest they have general characteristics and some special characteristics. 

I always try to replace old motors with as close to similar motors, or when possible and fit wise, upgrade to aftermarket motors or Kato's which seem to fit in everything. 

I also recognize there are some dynamite 3 pole motors, such as the Minitrix motors used on the K4 and decapod, and the best I can see, they have very strong magnets which keep the armature sensitive and responsive, while I even have an old Mehano 5 pole motor which responds, but think it is so weak it takes an atomic bomb blast to get it running -- weak magnet.  Point is that I am sure Kato's 3 pole motor is quite the performer, as my GS4 is now a good runner, and my problems with it were not attributable to the motor at all.

But on a general note, I have a Kato 5 pole motor which when I put direct power via clips to it, it runs quietly, smoothly, and remains cool in my hand. That is not the case with 3 pole motors.  Comparitively speaking, 3 pole motors tend to vibrate a little more as you put power to it, get hot very quickly, and most often require a higher voltage to start it, then back it off.  You don't have to to that with a 5 pole motor, unless you have some impediments in the mechanism. 

On the whole, it takes some real decision wrenching on my part to install a 3 pole motor in any rebuild or repair, simply because I use Silicon or Goo to mount the motor, and those adhesives worst enemy is vibration, and the 3 pole is probably more prone to fail over a period of time.

I have seen some flywheel equipped 3 pole motors operating under dcc and a very technical powerpak, and was greatly impressed even going so far to speculate the loco was powered by a 5 pole motor, and being impressed with the fact it was 3 pole.

There are a million variants but to me the bottom line comes in my hand to hand comparison between the two, which is simply the 3 pole vibrates more and gets hotter quicker, which are virtual enemies to lasting a long time under use.

These are my opinions based on my real day to day experiences have no scientific or logical basis, but just my gut instincts after long term exposure and experience.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

[havingfuntoo]

It is my preference to have a 5 pole motor over a 3 pole motor. They are almost always smoother operating and more powerful using less power to rotate the armature.

Yes you can use all sorts of electronics to smooth out the operation of 3 pole, do the same to a 5 pole and you are enjoying even better performance. It is really quiet simple, you can not make silk purse out of a pig’s ear.

With regard to B’man advertising a model has a 5 pole motor and then selling it with a 3 pole and not correcting their advertising, that is not on in my books, not from any manufacturer.     

[sizemore]

[Ryan87]

My one pole motor wont turn.. 

[mcjaco]

I like turtles.

3 or 5 pole turtles?

[John]

Have fun with the topic .. let's make sure we don't get personal

[Brakie]

The Atlas MP15DC has a three pole motor and is a very fine switcher..

I'll leave it at that since I am completely please with the slow speed switching this unit offers in plain DC.

[victor miranda]

Hi brakie,
I am writing this because I am hoping to
make clear a rather fine distinction. 
One that I do not get much credit for saying, anyway.

I do not have a problem with Atlas for chosing a 3 pole motor for the mp-15.

you will read this line a little later in the post.

One thing Atlas said was the smaller motor was required
to make the MP-15.
They stated the motor they picked was more expensive than
their normal motor.
Atlas also said the motor they picked allowed the MP15 to MU with recent past
locos. a quality they felt was important.

The implication is that a 5 pole motor was both even more expensive
and did not give them operational qualities they wanted.
This last sentence is my own understanding of the situation.
 
For me the only part that is important is that a smaller motor is needed.
I would like 5 poles and smaller.
However, from all I have seen that is expensive.
So I do not have a problem with Atlas for chosing a 3 pole motor for the mp-15.
their reasons as stated are good enough.
the resultant loco will do for shunting cars.
the b-mann 44 tonner is in the same bucket as far as I am concerned.

do not mistake this;
both locos could be better at slow speeds.
(understand that line as; I can see motor cogging in both locos)
both locos could cost more.

The only thing we do not know is how much more.
If the locos were produced with the 5 pole motors,
ones I know exist and fit, we'd know.

I know how much it costs for me to try the upgrade.

[Brakie]

Vic,If I may.

In the great battle of 3 vs.5 pole motors I have no givens or druthers as long as the locomotive has a smooth slow speed.

I recall my old AHM RSD15s was smooth runners for their day and time-I had 4-I couldn't tell you then or now if they had a 3,5,or more poles and could careless as long as the performance fills my simple DC  switching needs and those RSD15s did exactly that.The Trix H12-44 was another fine switcher in its time and I suppose still is...

Know and understand I am a simple modeler that enjoys our wonderful hobby without worrying over things such as 3 or 5 pole,a missing bolt,3 to many bolts,wrong size of bolts etc-unless of course it a glaring detail error that is very obvious nor do I loose sleep over the fact the Hooten Hollow & Western never had PS 5344 boxcars..

My point?

Simple..I will be ordering a GE70 Tonner and I won't worry if its a 3,5,or 10 poler because I seen one in switching action and was impress.

For me that's the main ingredient.

Carry on my friend..

[Mark5]

Vic,If I may.

In the great battle of 3 vs.5 pole motors I have no givens or druthers as long as the locomotive has a smooth slow speed.

I recall my old AHM RSD15s was smooth runners for their day and time-I had 4-I couldn't tell you then or now if they had a 3,5,or more poles

5 poles. (I have one, well at least the chassis that I stretched for a C630 project some 30+ years ago)

[victor miranda]

Vic,If I may.

In the great battle of 3 vs.5 pole motors I have no givens or druthers as long as the locomotive has a smooth slow speed.

I recall my old AHM RSD15s was smooth runners for their day and time-I had 4-I couldn't tell you then or now if they had a 3,5,or more poles and could careless as long as the performance fills my simple DC  switching needs and those RSD15s did exactly that.The Trix H12-44 was another fine switcher in its time and I suppose still is...

Know and understand I am a simple modeler that enjoys our wonderful hobby without worrying over things such as 3 or 5 pole,a missing bolt,3 to many bolts,wrong size of bolts etc-unless of course it a glaring detail error that is very obvious nor do I loose sleep over the fact the Hooten Hollow & Western never had PS 5344 boxcars..

My point?

Simple..I will be ordering a GE70 Tonner and I won't worry if its a 3,5,or 10 poler because I seen one in switching action and was impress.

For me that's the main ingredient.

Carry on my friend..

I believe it was a poor quality 5 pole....
in terms of the quality of the construction anyway.

I will point out that you said this:

...was another fine switcher in its time and I suppose still is...

hard to argue against the standards of the past.

Lets lean it up another loco I used for shunting way back when...
and see how the standard has held up over time?

I kinda liked the Kato/CC 4-6-4 for shunting myself.
Maybe I liked how smooth and controlable it was way back when...
an Atlas gp-9 is better.

So if the Trix was your standard by which you guage locos,
I can understand your position.

I believe you are content with the recent and smaller switchers

what are you arguing for?  the positive part you want?

do you want three pole motors?  who cares what size the loco?
do you want three poles because you want cheaper locos?

you are telling me you want every one to buy magic throttles?

I can't see any way your telling me that 3 pole motors are perfectly acceptable
 has a benefit for you or others.
I concede this: three pole motors are cheaper than 5 pole motors.
but you are not even asking for a lower price to offset the loss of performance.

victor