Planning a layout

[wm3798]

Oh John, really.  You know I'm just jealous because I don't have 30' to work with!

If you just look at the track plan, mine is as caricature as you get.  Bridges spilling right out of tunnels, main lines appearing 2, 3, even four times in a scene.  Good lord, I even have roads that don't start or end anywhere!

But there's a definite rythm to it, and it certainly helps that I chose a prototype that plays peak-a-boo with a bunch of mountains, rivers and other railroads...

What drives it all is the operations of the model itself.  While this is based loosely on the prototype operation, it is in no way a direct replica.  It can't be.  There isn't enough room.  So, I have some tight curves and steep grades.  That's okay.  A little scenic trickery, and you can block those things from your view.

And when you get right down to it, most of us share our layouts through photography.  Talk about slight of hand!  Dave Vollmer's door looks like it might fill a basement!  Skibbe's module looks like it might be a prototype shot!  So what the hell am I worried about compressing 100 miles out of a 110 mile route?

The key is to decide what compromises are going to be acceptable to your particular modeling pallet.  One of Ian's compromises, for instance, was to blow a hole in the wall (and I suspect his wallet) to add on to the basement so he wouldn't have to compromise (as much) on the modeled distance!  For me, I had to accept that my layout would be all "model railroady" looking.  But it operates the way I want it to operate, so it's all good.

Lee

[MichaelWinicki]

TOkay, so you have a 30' shelf with a track down the middle of it... Yawn.

Note to self - Lee don't like my 30' of shelf with track down the middle  

John, it of course comes down to everything else that surrounds that track as it goes down the middle.... I mean I know you know this stuff.

Let me share something with you... I'm a marketer by trade.  I've done a fair amount of copywriting in my day.  And one of the "tricks" of writing a good sales letter or ad is to put in plenty of visual "speed bumps".  

The last thing I want is for the reader to read the ad or sales letter from start to finish without every pausing and saying to themselves, "Hey this makes sense" or "I agree with this point" or "I never thought about it this way before."

I think with a layout you're attempting to do the same thing.  You don't want a visitor to be able to scan that 30' shelf from one end to the other and not have to pause at one or two things along the way and say to themselves, "Gee, that's pretty cool" or "Wow! That looks realistic" or "Gosh what a piece of @#$%" (just kidding on the last one ;D).

And how to accomplish this?  Maybe running the track behind some buildings so the viewer loses sight of it momentarily.  Or maybe the track runs into a "tunnel of trees" (which really looks cool, I'm surprised we don't see more of that where you can just see the top of the train as it passes by).  

Obviously there are other factors that can enhance the "speed bump" affect like bridges and such.  I've come to realize that a big component is the back-drop.  And yeah, it's at the back of the layout, but it sets the stage for one happens in front of the layout.  A good backdrop can greatly enhance the ability to create those visual speed bumps.  

[John]

Oh John, really.  You know I'm just jealous because I don't have 30' to work with!

and you know I am just dogging you

[John]

One of Ian's compromises, for instance, was to blow a hole in the wall (and I suspect his wallet) to add on to the basement so he wouldn't have to compromise (as much) on the modeled distance! 

you did?

Sounds like Howard Zane

[Ian MacMillan]

One of Ian's compromises, for instance, was to blow a hole in the wall (and I suspect his wallet) to add on to the basement so he wouldn't have to compromise (as much) on the modeled distance! 

you did?

Sounds like Howard Zane

Lee makes it sound so serial killerish... No hole in the wall but I did not compromise on the modeled distance, at it is 6 scale miles of main line, modeled as 6 actual miles. 1:1 in 1:160

[asciibaron]

i have visited some operations oriented layouts in the Mid Atlantic region and i really must confess, many are simply little more than chess boards.  this really stood out while i was visiting a CSX based HO scale layout in Delaware.  



visually, i wanted to poke my fingers in my eyes - it looks NOTHING like the CSX Philly Sub - it looks like pink foam plains.  it's like the simulator doesn't have enough CPU/GPU processing power to draw the rest of the landforms and scenic elements.

comparing that line to a certain PRR Buffalo Line done in HO which was built for operations using the same approach, this layout just looks more realistic and draws your attention.  even when the railroad is going between nothing, the trains go through SOMETHING



the 12" wide by 30' long layout on a shelf doesn't have to be a sterile and precise, it can have depth and character - it really comes down to the vision of the modeler.

and if you were wondering, operations on latter layout are on par with the visual presentation - they rock.

[Dave V]

Because there is nothing more to me that screams Pennsy than seeing a group of hippos running a coal drag along side a creek with a few scattered houses and barns in the background.I have to model this on my layout not sure what local but it will be on there.

Allen.....

Well, that might be a tall order in N scale, unless you can get a couple of the GHQ L1s conversion kits for the Kato mike and follow Max Magliaro's technique for splicing the frame to turn them into I1s decapods.  Honestly, you could do a Pennsy branch like Shamokin in your space in HO.  The hippos are available in HO from BLI and Bowser.

The scene you describe is the Shamokin branch in my mind, although the Northern Division up to Sodus Point is another option, as is the Schuylkill Division.

If you want a Pennsy flavor, you need position light signals, interlocking towers and tool sheds following the PRR standard designs and painted in signature two-tone brown with red sash, keystone-accented signage, pipe railing, stone retaining walls and bridges, etc.  All of those elements combine to scream Pennsy:



Overall this conversation has been very interesting.  I've been milking my layout for all its worth and am pretty sick of it.  However, it's very unlikely that I'll be able to do much about it for a few years yet.  So, I'm stuck.  But I love applying the lessons from these conversations to my imaginary post-Air Force dream layout.  10x25 is about the largest I would do even if I had more space and money, because I don't think I could finish anything larger.

BTW, please ignore the code 80 rail and oversized signals...  They're just a small part of the growing collection of the little annoyances piling up on the Juniata Division.

[71jeep]

Well, that might be a tall order in N scale, unless you can get a couple of the GHQ L1s conversion kits for the Kato mike and follow Max Magliaro's technique for splicing the frame to turn them into I1s decapods.  Honestly, you could do a Pennsy branch like Shamokin in your space in HO.  The hippos are available in HO from BLI and Bowser

This is no problem Dave I have or will have six Hippos in the roster once I finish the two conversions that you speek of  ;D ;D
And if need be I will build some more the more the merrier i always say.


I have been thinking this over since this all started and I am really thinking of combining aspects of the Shamokin and the Elmira i think this wold nice layout.

And I want to build the layout to be operational but not have it be my main focus. So on the days when I just want to play with trains I can and the days I want to be an engineer and operate some trains I can I want to try and have my cake and eat it too ;D

And Dave I really envy your layout as many people have said it just has everything raped up in a neat little package.

Thanks guy this has been a great discussion so far.

Allen....

[Dave V]

That's right, I forgot!  You've got two of those hippo conversions underway right now!  I didn't put the two threads together; sorry!  Blame it on a long day at work...

And yes, your two hippos look great!  You'll need 2 more cut in at the rear ahead of the cabin... ;D

[71jeep]

No problem Dave I just hope I finish my I1sa conversions before the layout ;D

Anyway seeing a batch of hippos hauling a coal drag has always been a dream of mine to see on a layout a set up front pulling and a set in the rear helping what a beautiful site it will be .

There is no question now I am going to have to go to DCC but this is going to suck to have to convert over 150 loco's well I will have to just bite the bullet and start learning how to do it or get the resident expert Lee to help out.

Thanks guys take care and I started ordering some books today.

Allen....

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Thinking something like this?



That's Max's I1, but with a manifest, not coal.

[71jeep]

YES YES AND YES!!! Man where is the drooling icon when I need it  ;D ;D 

Max did such a beautiful job on his I1 I hope my two come out as good as his.

That is just the type of scenery I like put a barn and a small farm house in the back ground perfect!!

Man you guys are getting me fired up to get this done even sooner but there are just to many obstacles in my way to make it happen till next year > >

All good things take time thanks all !

Allen.....

[wm3798]

That's fine, but you have to make sure the roof is glued onto the house, right Ed?

Lee

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Lol, or you'll never hear the end of it...

[John]

i have visited some operations oriented layouts in the Mid Atlantic region and i really must confess, many are simply little more than chess boards.  this really stood out while i was visiting a CSX based HO scale layout in Delaware.  



visually, i wanted to poke my fingers in my eyes - it looks NOTHING like the CSX Philly Sub - it looks like pink foam plains.  it's like the simulator doesn't have enough CPU/GPU processing power to draw the rest of the landforms and scenic elements.

I think it is poor form to trash this guys layout .. Bruce has a nice setup. Just because it doesn't meet your standards from a visual perspective isn't really pertinent. He put out the $$$$, and it does for him what he wants it to do.   I don't imagine you will get invited back if he sees this post