Micro-trains Heavyweights arriving soon

[Bob Bufkin]

According to the list Jerry posted above, it looks like SP and B&O were the two biggest users of the plan so here's hoping for a B&O release. Now I guess I need to research the paint schemes to help my cause along. If I am thinking right, the cars were painted Blue and Gray durring the conversion to A/C. Before that they were solid blue or pullman green, or both, I can't remember right now.

I asked this question on the B&O Yahoo Group and here's the answer I received:

Tom Madden's Pullman Project (http://www.pullmanproject.com/) has a database
of construction records which includes repainting dates and color schemes.
Most of the 10-1-2's were in the "Lake" and "Loch" series. I think you can
sort Madden's database by car name. Some of the 12-1's (which M-T has also
announced) ended up in the blue-grey scheme.

[jmlaboda - RIP]

As did the 10-1-2s and other B&O ex-Pullman cars.  What is more is that many of these cars were reclassified as "coaches" without changes to their interiors.  The biggest difference being that they were numbered instead of named.  In the 1960 ORPTE two numbers are easily spotted... 7370 and 7371, while most of the others were 12-1s "with bedding removed."

[SkipGear]

According to the list Jerry posted above, it looks like SP and B&O were the two biggest users of the plan so here's hoping for a B&O release. Now I guess I need to research the paint schemes to help my cause along. If I am thinking right, the cars were painted Blue and Gray durring the conversion to A/C. Before that they were solid blue or pullman green, or both, I can't remember right now.

I asked this question on the B&O Yahoo Group and here's the answer I received:

Tom Madden's Pullman Project (http://www.pullmanproject.com/) has a database
of construction records which includes repainting dates and color schemes.
Most of the 10-1-2's were in the "Lake" and "Loch" series. I think you can
sort Madden's database by car name. Some of the 12-1's (which M-T has also
announced) ended up in the blue-grey scheme.

Bob,
  Thanks for starting the discussion on the B&O Group, some good info is coming out of it. Joe, if you are listening, here is what has been found out so far......for B&O.

As built - Pullman Green with the Lake and Loch naming.
Mid 30's - with Pullman Mechanical A/C - Started painting BandO Blue.
1948 on - When B&O took ownership of the cars and upgraded to York A/C - Blue and Gray

It depends on if there is enough detail or anybody really cares which A/C system hangs from the bottom of the car but honestly you are safe with Blue and Blue and Gray. I don't know and can't tell the difference in A/C systems so for me, I want both.

[jmlaboda - RIP]

As a reference only here are some links to shots of the Plan 2585 10-1-2 cars, the differences are very noticeable...

Aisle side...
ACL 62344  http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2152077860012275892RBeVTS
ACL 62428  http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2927481930012275892KRAXOA

Bedroom side...
Pullman "Malay"  http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00014529+OP-14529
PRR "North Judson"  http://rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-n-judson-ahn.jpg

Something else to remember... there were later versions of the 3585 that had only one vestibule and an enlarged bathroom on the end, which is the prototype for the Bachmann HO car...
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=590730

[DaveB]

So, would any of the 10-1-2's  have stayed around in pool service with the big Pullman over the windows, and if so, for how long?

[bbussey]

As a reference only here are some links to shots of the Plan 2585 10-1-2 cars, the differences are very noticeable...

Looks like the bedroom sides match, or are very close, and the aisle sides have major differences.

[jmlaboda - RIP]

Here are some of the cars that remained in Pullman ownership.  Paint and retirement information is based on Tom Madden's Pullman Car Construction Records which can be found at his Pullman Project website.

These cars received Pullman's General Service TTG...
Lake Bernard - retired September 1966
Lake Calumet - retired March 1966
Lake Eaton - retired March 1966
Lake Frederick - retired March 1966
Lake Gentry - retired October 1964
Lake George - retired March 1966
Lake Griffin - retired February 1966
Lake Isabella - retired January 1960
Lake Majella - retired April 1966
Lake Marion - retired September 1964
Lake Maurepas - retired October 1964
Lake Mendota - retired April 1966
Lake Monona - retired February 1966
Lake Ontario - retired March 1966
Lake Phalen - retired March 1966
Lake Pigeon - retired November 1961
Lake Placid - retired January 1966
Lake Russell - retired August 1964
Lake Terrell - retired June 1967
Lake Verret - retired August 1963
Lake Weir - retired February 1966

In Pullman green paint...
Howard Lake - retired May 1962
Lake Atwood - retired September 1960
Lake Bonaparte - retired March 1961
Lake Bryant - retired March 1961
Lake Clealum - retired October 1960
Lake Grandin - retired October 1964
Lake Harris - retired June 1961
Lake Hasset - retired November 1961
Lake Jessup - retired November 1964
Lake Kegonsa - retired July 1960
Lake Kennedy - retired September 1960
Lake Lindsay - retired July 1964
Lake Martha - retired September 1960
Lake Miltona - retired January 1960
Lake Moore - retired August 1960
Lake Nicaragua - retired July 1960
Lake Owen - retired October 1960
Lake Pickett - retired March 1961
Lake Pierce - retired March 1961
Lake Pontchartrain - retired May 1961
Lake Roland - retired March 1961
Lake Ronkonkoma - retired December 1960
Lake Scott - retired December 1960
Lake Sedgwick - retired August 1960
Lake Union - retired March 1961
Lake Victor - retired January 1961
Lake Vineyard - retired March 1962
Lake White - retired March 1961
Lake Whitewood - retired July 1960
Lake Whitney - retired March 1961
Lake Winder - retired October 1960
Lake Winnipeg - retired December 1960
Lake Winthrop - retired March 1961
Lake Yukon - retired December 1960


In other paint...
Gunsight Lake - retired March 1966
Harrison Lake - retired January 1966
Howard Lake - retired March 1961
Lake Natchez - retired October 1964
Lake Traverse - retired October 1964

[NYC1956]

Thanks Jerry. You have provided some very useful information.

[cvgp9]

I'm still researching the next 4 cars, so nothing difinitive on styles or proto's.  I considered the window painting on the GN's...but the price would have doubled with the masking...expecially trying to do something that sit in so deep (anything below mean surface level is problematic for masking equipment).  We also had some conflicting info on when that was done.  As to the lettering I believe we worked off information supplied by the GN society...but not sure since I've been distracted with new projects on the other side of the building.  I have a few that I am relettering for SP right now and roughing them up as siding queens for the time being.  Undecorated without lettering are on the way, but not until the three body styles are released.   The ink is still fresh on these so if you use some Coleman fuel, or White Gas as they call it in Virginia  ;D it should wipe right off.  We use it to clean off errors in printing and it it doesn't set too long, works well.  Otherwise, some 600 or 800 grit sandpaper and a little water and a little patience will take it right off too.  A coat of clear and you will not see where the sanding was done.

Cheers

Joe
MTL

Thanks Joe
I use a moistoned Magic Eraser sponge.  I f you use a light touch the underlying paint won't even be affected

[jmlaboda - RIP]

"I'm still researching the next 4 cars, so nothing difinitive on styles or proto's."

Please consider the 3 Compartment - 2 Drawing Room - lounge observations.  A number of these cars were later sold to railroads who used them as business cars before they were rebuilt into a floor plan more to their liking and quite a few were sold to private individuals as well.  The most famous being Lucius Beebe's Virginia City, which survives today...
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=683534
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=497411

Royal American Shows also owned at least one of these cars, so if desired you could offer this popular paint scheme as well... like AHM use to do in HO.

[FrankCampagna]

And coaches, PLEASE!!!!! I fail to understand how we get two sleepers in the first run without a single coach. I suspect few people model all sleeper consists. Barring a few deluxe trains, coaches were almost universal.

Frank

[bbussey]

Coach
Diner
Observation

It's difficult to offer complete consists - whether as individual cars or boxed sets - without adding those three bodystyles to the four already released/announced.

But the parlor can stand-in as a coach in the interim.

[SkipGear]

And coaches, PLEASE!!!!! I fail to understand how we get two sleepers in the first run without a single coach. I suspect few people model all sleeper consists. Barring a few deluxe trains, coaches were almost universal.

Frank

Frank,
 I am in total agreement. Most layout sized trains are going to be the local with an RPO, some Baggage Mail cars and a couple coaches. No need for sleepers, parlor cars or diners for a half hour commute.

[bbussey]

The New Haven used parlors and lounges all the time for half-hour commutes, from the beginning to the end.  They had coaches also of course, but they extensively used the parlors.  It was one of the few roads to have its passenger service operating in the black.

[NYC1956]

Coaches, 60' baggage cars, and troop sleepers converted to mail-express cars.
That is all I need for my passenger trains and mail-express trains.