Amoskeag Northern - Updates

[lock4244]

That looks really good, Ian. The middle of Autumn is my season of choice as well. I'd agree that you need a bit more green in there, though it really does depend on what type of tree / bush you are trying to represent.

[lock4244]

Sorry Ian, I don't like the trees. They're too bright. Try weathering them too. Id hate to see the hotness of the layout ruined by neon trees (like what's happened to David Popp).

I'm with Dave on this one, too. Some of the colours you see in Autumn are pretty 'fake' looking, but mother nature gets flamboyant at times. One caution is that the leaves don't all change at once, sometimes not even amongst identical species in the same grove. Like all things in nature, though patterns and repetition exist, there is too much variation to follow even a general rule. Mormon Rock looks pretty fake if you think about it... just pink styrofoam stacked on an angle and painted.

Few of my proto shots with some pretty neon colours:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=301063
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=257887
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=256908
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=208011

[Ed Kapuscinski]

My point is that, even though those things are possible, knowing Ian's sensibilities, I'd think he'd be more for the more mundane.

Because, even on these two pics, there's a lot of gray and green in there, with only a few really bright trees.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=208011
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=257887

[conrail98]

My point is that, even though those things are possible, knowing Ian's sensibilities, I'd think he'd be more for the more mundane.

Because, even on these two pics, there's a lot of gray and green in there, with only a few really bright trees.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=208011
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=257887

And those shots are in the country, whereas Ian's is a more urban setting. I would actually think there'd be little color change before the leaves just dropped, maybe a darker shade of orange/brown/red,

Phil

[lock4244]

Figures that Ed's eye is drawn to the bare trees  ;D

It's a valid point, though, because just as the leaves change at different times, the leaves also fall at different times (variables such as rain and wind notwithstanding). Looking out my window here at work in the City (suburbs), there is a mix of green, coloured and bare hardwoods around here.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Exactly. That's one of my biggest beefs with "fall" layouts. They all generally tend to be extremely uniform in color, all the same WS orange and red, and not properly "diluted" with other colors and shades.

Looking out the office window here, we too have a yellow tree, but it's actually yellow and green, but mixed in a tough way to accomplish in a model (which means more power to Ian if he gets it right, but I'll razz him incessantly if he doesn't). The tree actually looks almost like this: http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/BT-EB/page/1

[GaryHinshaw]

I've been thinking about this since Ian posted these shots yesterday and I have a different reaction.  The color is ok - though a bit of green in the mix would be good - but I think the foliage is too dense for this kind of tree. These Sumac trees - a real signature of urban Boston - are really just big weeds that grow where nothing else will, and their branch structure is very gangly and their leaves are really long:



Given that this is going to be such a spectacular layout, it would be great to figure out a way to capture that sense a bit better.  Not sure how though.....  Anyway, I don't mean to pile on, it's just that I like what you're doing here so much, and capturing that detail would make it stunning. 

-gfh

[MichaelWinicki]

Even the week that offers "peak" color, there are already trees that are bare and others that are green.

I think there's a difference between modeling a (and I'm going to use Lee's word here) caricature of fall and modeling fall. 

You look at this image of Dave's layout and the reds just "pop" on Popp's layout too much for me... http://riptrack.net/files/Popp-straight.jpg

[MichaelWinicki]

I've been thinking about this since Ian posted these shots yesterday and I have a different reaction.  The color is ok - though a bit of green in the mix would be good - but I think the foliage is too dense for this kind of tree.

Gary you make a good point. 

Creating bushes or shrubbery in N-scale is a bit of a challenge.  For the most part everything comes out too dense to resemble sumac or lilac 's or many of the other "smaller than trees, but larger than a weed" vegetation.  SuperTrees can be used but I think you have to do a lot of pruning and shaping.   A lot of folks fall back to simply tossing around a lot of clump foliage and calling it a day.

[GaryHinshaw]

Might be interesting to look at some SAMtrees etched palm fronds:



http://www.samtrees.com/cchanpin4.asp?a_mingcheng=7020%20-%20Etched%20Palm%20Trees

The fronds are available as small as 1/2000 scale and could serve as sumac leaves on a wire armature tree. The fronds may not be available separately, just as built-up palm trees, and it would be a lot of work to make these. But it could be stunning, especially with a blend of smaller leaf weed trees (like the ones you have now).

-gfh

[DKS]

Re: foliage, might want to check this out:

http://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Foliage_1_152_1_160_Feuillage_N.html

[sirenwerks]

Re: foliage, might want to check this out:

http://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Foliage_1_152_1_160_Feuillage_N.html

For those interested in ordering these on this side of the pond, Ngineering carries some of those etchings. He's pretty good about pleasing customers, so would probably get what you want that he doesn't carry as well. Check it out @ http://www.ngineering.com/photo_etched_products.htm

[Ian MacMillan]

There is a lot of green to go in there. Please refer to the text, which also has info in it other than just photos for eye candy.

The trees will be a 60/40 mix, Green/Colors respectively. The modeled time is the First week of October, so the color ratio and colors are appropriate. Ed, the scenes you posted are all of the 3rd/4th week of October, which makes a MAJOR difference in a scene. It does not seem like a few days can change a scene, but it really can. Wind/Rain storms can make it change even quicker. The scenes where trees have changed in color are going to be maples (reds), sumacs (reds), and birch (yellow/orange), while Oaks are still green. Dont forget the mix of evergreens that will be in there. I think when everything comes together it will blend well, I mean , take the pictured scene and add green trees at the amount of 60% more than the colored ones. A good thing to do is test your colors against the real thing. To my eye under the layout lighting it was a pretty good match. Maybe I should take a shot with the WS stuff.


Heres a shot out of the back yard last Wed, which today looks significantly different. I should take a photo tomorrow to show the difference.


One of the things that does not seem to be photographing well (maybe just the need to step up to my larger zoom) is that there are some transitional orange/red mixing on individual trees. But then again, sumacs tend to go from green to red in a snap.

The colors are actually quite muted. They are Scenic Express Yellow Clay, Georgia Clay, and Yellow Gold, with greens being Burnt Green and Moss Green. Compare the "fall colors", Yellow Clay, Georgia Clay, and Yellow Gold, to the Woodland Scenics colors and you can really see the difference. The Woodland Scenics are neon, while these actually look quite well. I do think however that once a scene is "finished" and everything gets and airbrushing of "dust". Popp's colors are much more towards Primary, as they are in fact Woodland scenics. Trust me when you put the WS colors beside the SE colors, it looks like someone dumped a bunch of tan powder in the SE colors. Its night and day....neon like Ed said


These bushes are supposed to be Sumac trees, which are a very exaggerated red when they turn the first weeks of Oct. And like Gary said, they are staples of urban MA/NH.


Using the fine red I dont think they look too bad to the eye. However, I had not known about the Samtrees. The 1/1500 ones are $.74 each, and a $50 may not be to bad to see how they turn out. It maybe impressive.

Just for Eddles...Bask in Carl Weber glory... GFY...  ;D

[DKS]

Exactly. That's one of my biggest beefs with "fall" layouts. They all generally tend to be extremely uniform in color, all the same WS orange and red, and not properly "diluted" with other colors and shades.

Looking out the office window here, we too have a yellow tree, but it's actually yellow and green, but mixed in a tough way to accomplish in a model (which means more power to Ian if he gets it right, but I'll razz him incessantly if he doesn't). The tree actually looks almost like this: http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/BT-EB/page/1

I wasn't taking your point to task, Ed. I agree that he could have done it differently, and in a way you might have liked better. However, consider the amount of foliage that Ian had completed in that one shot: it's (presumably) a tiny portion of what's to come. In and of itself, the sample that he presents is not objectionable, at least to me; if he were to do his entire layout like that, then yes, I would agree that's not the best approach. But I don't think he necessarily needs to rip out what he's done to achieve a good balance of the green/colorful/dull/bare trees one finds at any given point in time during fall. I'd wait a bit and see how things unfold before piling on.

EDIT: Ian, I posted this the same time you posted.

[Wardie]

As pointed out sumacs are mostly big weeds in northern new england, and pretty much just have foliage at the tope, though it is very bright red when they turn. Along the ROW in Maine they occur frequently and they grow quickly.