Author Topic: 1615 Layout Planning: First draft with Track  (Read 6893 times)

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Ed Kapuscinski

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1615 Layout Planning: First draft with Track
« on: January 13, 2010, 05:57:39 PM »
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As alluded to in another thread, here's my first draft of a layout plan.

Here's the image:


Most importantly, there's lots of loose ends intentionally left in the plan. It really was a design drawn up to see how the track and various elements would fit into the space.

With that said, here's what you're looking at, from the top going clockwise:

First up is the 6 turn 18"radius helix coming up from staging (TBD later). I've thought about maybe double tracking it though, just to ease traffic flow.

The track then hits an unnamed control point where it fans out to three tracks, the upper most representing Washington DC (and Potomac Yard in Alexandria Virginia), the middle track being the Baltimore Penn Station track (for Amtrak and MARC trains), and the bottom track that represents the freight line to Bayview Yard. This control point would be sceniced in a way to make it a non-focal point.  I've been thinking about starting the ramp down before this point, so that I can use the area above the track as an industrial switching area.

Moving around the corner we get to CP Vern. This is where the track to DC splits off, and begins to disappear behind trees. Additionally, this is the south end access point to the small Mount Vernon Yard. This access would only be used by power that has dropped off blocks of cars that need to be dropped from a DC bound train and somehow transferred into the main Baltimore Yard. This would probably only be from one train a day.

Mount Vernon Yard would serve two functions. The first the aforementioned block swapping. The second is as an industrial support yard for the two local areas (the one above the helix mentioned above) and Cockeysville. This would allow for a very small amount of semi-classification work, and will provide a place to base my local jobs out of.

The real Mount Vernon was notably a Transflow terminal location. I may include this off the "Pit Track" I have included there. This is one of those "loose ends".

CP WOOD, would serve as access to the yard from the mains, and would be the end of the Rule 251 ABS signaled double track (251 signaling means each track is automatically signaled in one direction, but not the other, this was a common CR practice in many stretches of double track before the implementation of true bi-directional CTC). 251 Signaling is a pain in the butt to dispatch, but that's its fun. I don't think I'd have any intermediate signals in the short stretch actually included, but simulating it is important to the Conrail flavor of the layout.

CP WOOD is the end of the 251 territory because it is where the inner track becomes bidirectional for trains to and from Bayview, while the outer track is bidirectional to Penn Station and Washington.

The scenery around CP Wood would be older Baltimore mill style buildings, like this area: http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qjnvf38mcr4b&scene=44951758&lvl=1&sty=o&where1=Woodberry%2C%20MD

More description coming in part 2



wm3798

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Re: 1615 Layout Planning: First draft with Track
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2010, 07:56:07 PM »
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I'm going to restate my previously stated statement...  Me no likey.  You're cowering in fear about poking staging through to the back room, which will cost you two switch plates to cover the holes in the paneling, and going with a convoluted under the deck staging that will cost you two enormous space sapping helixes.  This will have a deeply negative impact on the visual appeal of the layout.

You've also incorporated some pointless acrobatics, such as the DC track.  This is a waste of space and track.  (You DON'T have a lot of space, so every square inch is precious.)  Yes, it can provide an operational diversion, but it will look so retarded, it will distract from the realism you surely hope to achieve.  You want an urban switching area, and the prime location for that is obstructed by the helix.  You want to incorporate some stretches of "nothing", but everything is so jammed up due to the presence of TWO helixes, you won't be able to that justice.

If you want to go for the David Barrow Naked Layout for the sake of Raw Operations, it might work.  But you're much more visual than that. 



Here's the sketch plan I doodled up a couple weeks ago.  It puts the staging in the back room, includes Penn Station to handle all your interchange stuff, and a setting of portable modules for the urban switching area, a'la the beer line.

I don't want to submarine discussion of your sketch,... no wait, I do.  The helixes are disastrous in terms of wasted space.  there's no way around it.  My sketch is indeed rough, and has several glaring issues.  BUT, I think it merits discussion by the gathered heads here...

Lee
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Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

wm3798

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Re: 1615 Layout Planning: First draft with Track
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2010, 08:01:38 PM »
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Okay, here's the narrative to go with the sketch above...

Basic plan... I know you're hesitant about a double deck, but let this play out...
Lower deck, can be constructed entirely on 30" x 6'8" doors.  Very simple game.  Upper level on 18-24" doors.  Tack a valance on the front edge, add some lighting underneath, and POW.

Okay, the big blob in the middle of the floor...  Baltimore industrial district.  Think Beer Line.  This can be totally portable, functional as a tie in to the layout, or as a stand alone that can travel to shows.  Four 2x4 units.  Use the beer line track plan (I have the articles if you need them) so you can monkey around with the configurations.  The units can be built to store under the layout along the wall.

Helix.  Option 1 - a blob near the foot of the steps.  A 36" helix will be too wide to put at the foot of the stairs, but a squashed oval like John's might work.  You should keep 36" of floor accessible at the foot of the stairs.  The object of the game would be to situate the helix so you keep a maximum run on both upper and lower decks.  Which leads me to option 2...

Option 2:  Put the helix in the closet under the stairs, poke a couple more holes through the stair risers.  The main issues here are:  You'll have to protect the track along the stairs somehow, and it'll cost you some storage space under the stairs.  (Storage space that can be replaced with cabinetry under the benchwork)  This gives you a lot more room for "nothing"...  and will help with train length sidings on the upper deck.

Track plan:  lower deck - focal point - Penn Station and North Ave. yards.  tunnel through the wall to reach staging over the workbench in the back room.  Lower level run includes B&P Jct., North Ave., Woodberry, Lake Roland (where you can include a foobie interchange with the WM via the Green Spring Branch, or just some awesome scenery with the abandoned line in the background), then on to Lutherville to the helix.

Coming back on the upper deck, you'll have Timonium, with room for 84 lumber and the old Stebbins truss plant, the fair grounds and John Deere, then on to Texas and the quarry.  At the corner over North Ave you'll have Cockeysville, with a junction for the Hunt Valley switching area, the York Rd. underpass, and on to north staging in the back room.

MARC stations will work at Penn Station, Lake Roland, Timonium, and Cockeysville, with north staging at Parkton.  (you could do some basic scenery on the upper deck staging...)  Amtrak locals could stop at Cockeysville, sort of in the New Carrollton mode.

Lower deck would be double track to Lutherville, then single track to Texas, where a long siding will help with traffic in and out of upper staging.

Hopefully that clarifies it a bit.

Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets

Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

conrail98

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Re: 1615 Layout Planning: First draft with Track
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2010, 09:28:57 PM »
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I gotta admit, I like Lee's rough sketch better. The only thing that concerns me would be compression and distance between "towns". From looking at the room itself, it looks like you can get about 35' of "linear" track going around the walls per deck. What else is in that back room besides the work bench?

Phil
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wm3798

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Re: 1615 Layout Planning: First draft with Track
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2010, 10:04:20 PM »
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The washing machines, a toilet, and a fridge for the beer.  If that isn't a perfect staging/dispatcher's office, then I'm off my nut. :D

Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets

Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

conrail98

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Re: 1615 Layout Planning: First draft with Track
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2010, 11:29:13 PM »
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I hope the washer/dryer are all front loading, that way staging can be run across the top of them, :)
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Re: 1615 Layout Planning: First draft with Track
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2010, 11:38:54 PM »
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I hope the washer/dryer are all front loading, that way staging can be run across the top of them, :)

now there is someone who is thinking clearly! 

i don't understand Ed's image - it's cut off on the bottom and i don't know how it relates to the space shown in Lee's sketch.  i walk down the stairs and should be hit with something inviting me to explore.  it's as much about presentation as it is operations.
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Philip H

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Re: 1615 Layout Planning: First draft with Track
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2010, 07:34:52 AM »
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The washing machines, a toilet, and a fridge for the beer.  If that isn't a perfect staging/dispatcher's office, then I'm off my nut. :D

Lee

Hum, now there's an image!   ;)
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DKS

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Re: 1615 Layout Planning: First draft with Track
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2010, 09:34:44 AM »
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i don't understand Ed's image - it's cut off on the bottom and i don't know how it relates to the space shown in Lee's sketch.

Agreed. Placing the plan in the context of the room, as seen in Lee's sketch, would help a great deal.
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Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: 1615 Layout Planning: First draft with Track
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2010, 10:36:53 AM »
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Interesting feedback. I'm going to have to overlay this on the room plan when I get a chance, but I didn't get a chance last night.

One thing to keep in mind, is that while I like the scope of Lee's plan, as he says, there's lot in there that's unrealistic (the 18" radius helix in 2' of space, for example).

For reference though, my drawing orients the same way as the one he posted, but is cut off a bit on the bottom and on the right.

sirenwerks

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Re: 1615 Layout Planning: First draft with Track
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2010, 10:43:49 AM »
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No peer pressure here Ed, but I am liking Lee's plan better. Keeping a clear line of travel between the stairs and the refrigerator is important. I am trying to figure out what would be the Baltimore version of the Beer Line though. Clipper Mill never generated that much traffic even remotely prior to Agnes, from what I've heard. Also, in replace of the helix, perhaps a train-a-vator?
Now seeking Pacific NW N scalers to create a Modutrak-style modular club featuring NP's shared mainline between Seattle and Portland. PM me if interested.

conrail98

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Re: 1615 Layout Planning: First draft with Track
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2010, 10:51:26 AM »
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Ed, do you think you need that large a radius for the trains you'd be running with the motive power, etc.?

Phil
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 10:54:21 AM by conrail98 »
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wm3798

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Re: 1615 Layout Planning: First draft with Track
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2010, 10:53:10 AM »
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Bryan,
I wasn't thinking of a specific locale, although Boston Street and environs would be a place to start.  I was thinking more in terms of some obvious Baltimore urban type industries, some maybe a little anachronistic, but all definitely downtown.  Allied Chemical (now Harbor East) the old President Street Freight Station, and a variety of loft-type warehouses around Central Ave., Fells Pt. and Canton would provide the essence of the section, if not a prototypical track plan.  Think from roughly Ponca Street over to President Street.  Rowhouses, street running, American Can, Belt's Wharf, National Brewing Co. and Gunthers, the Broom Factory, Standard Oil tank farm etc. etc.  There's enough over there to condense into a coherent set of switching modules, and enough landmark buildings to let everyone know where you are.

If he were doing 20 years earlier, he could do the Guilford Ave. industrial track, which came off the wye at Union Jct.  There was a small yard in front of the State Pen, then a track to the east that went to the WM's Hillen, and street trackage that served some warehouses, the old Calvert St. Freight Station (now the fitness club) and on down to tie into Pratt Street around the News American Building (now a parking lot...) 40 years earlier and that scene would also net the nifty Guilford Ave. elevated on the BTC.

But I digress.  And his basement isn't that big...  ;D

Lee
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Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: 1615 Layout Planning: First draft with Track
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2010, 11:02:09 AM »
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Ed, do you think you need that large a radius for the trains you'd be running with the motive power, etc.?

Phil

Yeah. I gotta be able to run TV trains and 86' boxes or else it just isn't mainline Conrail to me.


conrail98

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Re: 1615 Layout Planning: First draft with Track
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2010, 11:08:24 AM »
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I meant in the helix where visiblity isn't an issue. I was thinking an elongated helix with a smaller inside radius with a foot or so of straights between curves on the left side to give you an easier grade, but not take up as much space width wise. You should definitely double track the helix as when I had helices in my plan on XtrckCad and ran some trains on it, at 30/40 scale mph, it would take 2 1/2 minutes to traverse at  6/7 lap helix and that could become the choke point of the line,

Phil
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