frog stalling..

[diezmon]

I'm trying to figure out why my locos continue to stall on frogs..  I'm using DCC, and have powered frogs, hooked up to a slider switch that throws the points..

I've cleaned the track for what seems like forever, but I still have stalling problems..  I've tried a couple engines and they all have a bit of trouble.  you'd think even if the frogs didn't have power, the other wheels should pick up power and get the loco over.

any tips on what to look for?   it's not always the same switch, or the same loco.. so wth?

here's the album of some of my trackwork.. just to hopefully show that the rails are clean    I'm wondering if I need to concentrate on the inner edge of the rail, as well as the top?

stalling is frustrating..  >

http://picasaweb.google.com/diezmon/Trackwork

[davefoxx]

Whenever I have problems, it usually is because the point rails don't necessarily provide reliable electrical continuity.  So when a locomotive runs over a turnout, it may not be drawing current through all of its wheels as you would like.  If the points are dead, you're down to the other truck that's not on the points to draw current.  If that other truck has dirty wheels, well, you know what happens.  In other words, it may not necessarily be the frog at fault.

It doesn't hurt to hit the inside of the railhead when cleaning track.  Just today, I was taking a paper towel and rubbing along the railhead.  It was coming off black on the edges of the railhead, too.  

Hope this helps,
DFF

P.S. I checked out your photos through your link above.  You missed a spot.  ;D

[MichaelWinicki]

It may not be a frog problem.

Those look like Atlas code 55 switches... If so, it could be the point and or the rail from the point to the frog.

I've had a couple switches lose power because those pieces of rail weren't making a good connection with the rivet and brass plate sitting beneath the rails.

I ended up dropping a small amount of solder at the joint where the point and the rail going to the frog meet.

That solved my stuttering loco problem that no amount of rail cleaning was going to fix.

[diezmon]

I'm powering the frogs using a slide SPST switch.  I'm not relying on the points..

Also, I just re-checked everything with the voltmeter tonight.. and all is well electrically.  I'm going to check my wheel gauges next..

[Erik W]

I'm powering the frogs using a slide SPST switch.  I'm not relying on the points..

Also, I just re-checked everything with the voltmeter tonight.. and all is well electrically.  I'm going to check my wheel gauges next..

If you're using Atlas code 55, definitely check all the wheel gauges, but not with a track gauge.  Push the non powered locos through the turnout with your hand.  If you feel them bind slightly, your wheels are gauged too tight.  I have 19 locos.  The only ones that didn't need to be re-gauged were the Katos.  Atlas and IM are the worst offenders.  Some of the Atlas locos, when new, litterally looked like they hit a speed bump when they went through the frogs.  This binding appears the same as a momentary loss of electrical contact.

Also clean your loco wheels thoroughly, even if you think they're clean.  Use a paper towl soaked with rubbing alcohol under one truck at a time on the track.  This'll get the gunk off.

Erik

[diezmon]

I'm powering the frogs using a slide SPST switch.  I'm not relying on the points..

Also, I just re-checked everything with the voltmeter tonight.. and all is well electrically.  I'm going to check my wheel gauges next..

If you're using Atlas code 55, definitely check all the wheel gauges, but not with a track gauge.  Push the non powered locos through the turnout with your hand.  If you feel them bind slightly, your wheels are gauged too tight.  I have 19 locos.  The only ones that didn't need to be re-gauged were the Katos.  Atlas and IM are the worst offenders.  Some of the Atlas locos, when new, litterally looked like they hit a speed bump when they went through the frogs.  This binding appears the same as a momentary loss of electrical contact.

Also clean your loco wheels thoroughly, even if you think they're clean.  Use a paper towl soaked with rubbing alcohol under one truck at a time on the track.  This'll get the gunk off.

Erik

Yep, all atlas code 55.  thanks for the tip!   I just did what you said with an Atlas sd35.. pushed it with my hand.. and it bound up RIGHT at the frog..   I'll have to check the gauges of the track, and my locos...

[MichaelWinicki]

I'm powering the frogs using a slide SPST switch.  I'm not relying on the points..

Also, I just re-checked everything with the voltmeter tonight.. and all is well electrically.  I'm going to check my wheel gauges next..

If you're using Atlas code 55, definitely check all the wheel gauges, but not with a track gauge.  Push the non powered locos through the turnout with your hand.  If you feel them bind slightly, your wheels are gauged too tight.  I have 19 locos.  The only ones that didn't need to be re-gauged were the Katos.  Atlas and IM are the worst offenders.  Some of the Atlas locos, when new, litterally looked like they hit a speed bump when they went through the frogs.  This binding appears the same as a momentary loss of electrical contact.

Also clean your loco wheels thoroughly, even if you think they're clean.  Use a paper towl soaked with rubbing alcohol under one truck at a time on the track.  This'll get the gunk off.

Erik

Yep, all atlas code 55.  thanks for the tip!   I just did what you said with an Atlas sd35.. pushed it with my hand.. and it bound up RIGHT at the frog..   I'll have to check the gauges of the track, and my locos...

My money is on the SD35 having the issue.

[CBQ Fan]

Nice work on the layout!

[ednadolski]

 I just did what you said with an Atlas sd35.. pushed it with my hand.. and it bound up RIGHT at the frog..   I'll have to check the gauges of the track, and my locos...

Definitely check with the gauge. Some of the older Atlas C55 #5 turnouts were known to have binding issues at the frogs.  AFAIK the #7's were OK.

Ed

[Erik W]

I'm powering the frogs using a slide SPST switch.  I'm not relying on the points..

Also, I just re-checked everything with the voltmeter tonight.. and all is well electrically.  I'm going to check my wheel gauges next..

If you're using Atlas code 55, definitely check all the wheel gauges, but not with a track gauge.  Push the non powered locos through the turnout with your hand.  If you feel them bind slightly, your wheels are gauged too tight.  I have 19 locos.  The only ones that didn't need to be re-gauged were the Katos.  Atlas and IM are the worst offenders.  Some of the Atlas locos, when new, litterally looked like they hit a speed bump when they went through the frogs.  This binding appears the same as a momentary loss of electrical contact.

Also clean your loco wheels thoroughly, even if you think they're clean.  Use a paper towl soaked with rubbing alcohol under one truck at a time on the track.  This'll get the gunk off.

Erik

Yep, all atlas code 55.  thanks for the tip!   I just did what you said with an Atlas sd35.. pushed it with my hand.. and it bound up RIGHT at the frog..   I'll have to check the gauges of the track, and my locos...

With my layout, rather than worrying about what the gauge of the turnout frogs was, I just re-gauged the loco wheels so that when I manually pushed them through the turnouts, they didn't hang up.  Essentially, the turnout frogs became the standard I gauged my wheels to.

Erik

[Chris333]

Do you have a track gauge?  Run the side that says "flange ways" through the frog, if it binds up that means the gaps need widened. I know nothing about SD35's.

[diezmon]

well, I took the trucks off the SD35 today, and adjusted the wheels.   it tracks much better through the frogs now!

the odd thing is, my six-axle units work worse than my 4-axles.. what's up with that?  my brand new BLI E8, my athearn F45, and my older kato E8 are having problems..

sheesh.

[John]

Looks like your wheels are dirty also .. judging from that photo ..

You might also take a slight swipe with a file through the frogs .. those #5s are tight ..

[Erik W]

I tweak my locomotives when I purchase them.  I don't have a ton of locos, so it's easier to tune them as I get them.  This usually involves, installing the decoder, converting to Z scale couplers, removing excess factory lubricant, re-gauging the wheels, weathering.  No locomotive makes it onto the layout until those things are done.  Here's the last one that got the treatment.



Actually, my "rule" is no rolling stock on the layout until they're converted to Z scale couplers, lowered and weathered.

Erik

[justTRAINcRaZy]

Did you ever get anywhere on the stalling problem?? I bought 4 BLI/PCM E8s and consisted them all together. They still stall on some of the C55 frogs. The one thing I've noticed is that the wheel diameters seem a bit big. They frequently hit the nail heads and rumble, especially on sectional track.

Wondering if they could bottom out on the guards and lift off the rails. One seems to be worse than the others. If I press down on it, it lights up and starts to move.