Don't let this Ebay catch get away!

[John]

Let's see.  Lets use our imagination.  CSX reinstalls overhead in their Baltimore tunnels.  No one in the U.S.A. does electrics they want so they buy from Japan.  CSX finds it's cheaper to run the electrics and doesn't have to spent money on fuel for the diesel helpers in Baltimore.  I wouldn't want onemyself but this scenario would work.

More like .. AMTRAK goes broke .. CSX buys the NEC

[sundowner]

I though the Dude that wanted all the CSX MOW locos painted orange was gone. ;D

[Bob Bufkin]

Amtrak's been broke.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

But if it weren't for AMTRAK, every other railroad would be.

[rswinnerton]

But if it weren't for AMTRAK, every other railroad would be.

So Amtrak is taking one for the team?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

But if it weren't for AMTRAK, every other railroad would be.

So Amtrak is taking one for the team?

That's pretty much what it was created for.

To be the Interstate Highway System of rail transportation... a public conveyance that we all put money into and get the benefit of (and occasionally have to pay something for, like the PA Turnpike).

I do not understand when people forgot that that's what it is, not some money making enterprise. Perhaps Conrail's success set everyone's expectations too high.

[Philip H]

But if it weren't for AMTRAK, every other railroad would be.

So Amtrak is taking one for the team?

That's pretty much what it was created for.

To be the Interstate Highway System of rail transportation... a public conveyance that we all put money into and get the benefit of (and occasionally have to pay something for, like the PA Turnpike).

I do not understand when people forgot that that's what it is, not some money making enterprise. Perhaps Conrail's success set everyone's expectations too high.

No, its more basic then that.  Sometime in the 1950's - probably when Eisenhower decided we needed Interstates to move the Army (cause, ya know, trains sure couldn't do it) we as  nation decided to become car centric.  As a result rail passenger service has come to be seen as just another competitor with autos, and if it "competes" it needs to be a business, which needs to be profitable.

Or some Horse Feathers like that.

[up1950s]

If Ike ran as the skeleton he is , I would vote for him .

[DKS]

But if it weren't for AMTRAK, every other railroad would be.

So Amtrak is taking one for the team?

That's pretty much what it was created for.

To be the Interstate Highway System of rail transportation... a public conveyance that we all put money into and get the benefit of (and occasionally have to pay something for, like the PA Turnpike).

I do not understand when people forgot that that's what it is, not some money making enterprise. Perhaps Conrail's success set everyone's expectations too high.

Amtrak was created as a big government bailout, a way for politicians to avoid having to appear as the grim reaper before a bunch of unions and corporations faced with extinction (more or less at the hands of the same politicians). Since these circumstances remain the same, the bailout continues and will likely continue unless or until something happens that allows the politicians to somehow pull the switch with impunity.

Amtrak was also created as a hybrid public/private corporation, and was thus expected to become self-sustaining. Since Amtrak never enjoyed the success of Conrail, the feds have had to repeatedly extend or exclude the profitability requirement in order to justify its continued existence. Again, all an elaborate, costly process in order for politicians to save face (and likely continue to enjoy the lobbyists' perks).

[Mark5]

Amtrak was also created as a hybrid public/private corporation, and was thus expected to become self-sustaining.

Impossible expectation.

[eric220]

But if it weren't for AMTRAK, every other railroad would be.

So Amtrak is taking one for the team?

That's pretty much what it was created for.

To be the Interstate Highway System of rail transportation... a public conveyance that we all put money into and get the benefit of (and occasionally have to pay something for, like the PA Turnpike).

I do not understand when people forgot that that's what it is, not some money making enterprise. Perhaps Conrail's success set everyone's expectations too high.

Amtrak was created as a big government bailout, a way for politicians to avoid having to appear as the grim reaper before a bunch of unions and corporations faced with extinction (more or less at the hands of the same politicians). Since these circumstances remain the same, the bailout continues and will likely continue unless or until something happens that allows the politicians to somehow pull the switch with impunity.

Amtrak was also created as a hybrid public/private corporation, and was thus expected to become self-sustaining. Since Amtrak never enjoyed the success of Conrail, the feds have had to repeatedly extend or exclude the profitability requirement in order to justify its continued existence. Again, all an elaborate, costly process in order for politicians to save face (and likely continue to enjoy the lobbyists' perks).

If that's what it takes to keep a transportation alternative alive, go for it!  In mid September 2001, when I had to travel from San Francisco to Philadelphia, I was sure glad that there was a viable alternative to flying.

[Guilford Guy]

I know I'm about to get shot, but what if Amtrak had been merged into Conrail and had used the freight revenues to offset the passenger expenses?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

... I'm guessing the Horseshoe Curve would be one challenging (but wide) rail trail.

[Mark5]

... I'm guessing the Horseshoe Curve would be one challenging (but wide) rail trail.

This one's probably more fun:

http://www.atatrail.org/visit/about.cfm

About the rail lines
http://www.atatrail.org/about/page4.cfm

[sirenwerks]

I know I'm about to get shot, but what if Amtrak had been merged into Conrail and had used the freight revenues to offset the passenger expenses?

Because business culture is so intolerant of non-profit generating that the greedy investors would have jettisoned passenger ops ASAP.

I'm amazed at how people complain about Amtrak being subsidized. Show me a mode of transportation that's not. The freight roads were deeded land by federal grant. Road's are built by whom? Government, spending taxpayer dollars. Airports are built buy airlines? Um no. Neither is the air traffic control system, and without there would be so many accidents no one would fly. Similarly, roads have control systems that are kept up by whom? Governments, again spending taxpayer dollars. Even pedestrian and bike riders are subsidized these days, though IMO not on a scale they should be. (Personally, I think there should be a tax on gas that is used to PAY people to commute by bike or foot to work).

Railroads, in general, are less subsidized in modern times by other mechanically-based transportation systems. Granted, Amtrak is more subsidized by taxpayer dollars than freight is, but the passenger rail system was largely handicapped against post WWII and requires the aid to become viable. And I don't think anyone out there on either side of the political fence (that's a sad phrase in its own right) can argue that passenger rail transport doesn't hold great positive potential for America's future.

Truth is, the one part of Amtrak wholly owned by itself, the NEC, is profitable, and competitive with car and air travel. For Amtrak to become competitive nationally would require density of community development and, in between those densities, right-of-way development for true high speed rail, and the latter will require state or federal eminent domain to become re-competitive in a reasonable amount of time.