Most important manufacturer to N scales growth this year and why ?

[BCR 570]

This thread is overdue for a Canadian perspective:

North American Railcar Corporation for entering the N Scale freight car market with their Hawker Siddeley cylindrical hopper, which was well executed and will be re-run in 2010 with new roadnames . . . . .

True-Line Trains for also entering the N Scale freight car market with their 50' newsprint boxcars, although there were some significant errors on the first run.  They will also be re-run in 2010 with additional roadnames . . . . .

Rapido Trains for entering the N Scale passenger car market with some very well executed models - hopefully they will do more . . . . .

Atlas Model Railroad Co. for continuing to offer Canadian roadnames, although the unwillingness to offer Canadian specific details can be frustrating . . . . .

Intermountain Railway Co. for their announcement of the GMD SD40-2W - a bold move which I hope works out well for them . . . . .

and I also have to recognize Fox Valley Models for continuing to offer their superb wheels.


2010 should be another good year for Canadian modellers with one or two new freight cars due to be announced.  I am certainly looking forward to receiving some of the PGE and BCR newsprint boxcars announced in November.


Tim

[lock4244]

This thread is overdue for a Canadian perspective:

North American Railcar Corporation for entering the N Scale freight car market with their Hawker Siddeley cylindrical hopper, which was well executed and will be re-run in 2010 with new roadnames . . . . .

Tim, they released a car that was, essentially already done by IM, then charged way too much for it... and badmouthed their competition by musing about bent detail parts. A competitor whom they had sponsored many, many runs of the same car. Yes, the HS car is different than the one IM does, but do we really need this when there are no slab side covered hoppers in N, or PSC vans or CP EV vans, MIL bulkhead flats, sodium chlorate cylindricals, Canadian 52'-6" and 65' gons? I think they should have brought something else to market... something that actually filled a gap.

I wouldn't pat them on the back for this, but that's just me.

[BCR 570]

Tim, they released a car that was, essentially already done by IM, then charged way too much for it... and badmouthed their competition by musing about bent detail parts. A competitor whom they had sponsored many, many runs of the same car. Yes, the HS car is different than the one IM does, but do we really need this when there are no slab side covered hoppers in N, or PSC vans or CP EV vans, MIL bulkhead flats, sodium chlorate cylindricals, Canadian 52'-6" and 65' gons? I think they should have brought something else to market... something that actually filled a gap.

As you say, a different car, engineered to a higher level hence the price, and sold through a different business model which allows the manufacturer to re-invest the proceeds directly into development of another Canadian HO & N Scale car which we will see in 2010.  Too recent a prototype for me, but if one is into the modern Canadian scene, another variant of these cars cannot be a bad thing.

As for the other cars, some you have mentioned are under consideration for future offerings, and they are very receptive to suggestions.  I have already made a pitch for the MIL 71'-0" bulkhead flats.  They do wish to avoid cars under consideration by other manufacturers, which is why they passed on the slab sides.

I think that anyone who brings a Canadian prototype freight car to market deserves a pat on the back, and this manufacturer also deserves credit for their equal support of HO and N Scales - everything they produce is offered in both scales whenever possible.  Unfortunately most of their offerings are too modern for me, but that is their niche in the market.

Tim

[davidone]

I think over the past decade it has to be Kato, some Atlas, FVM, Bluford. Without Katos great running engines and thier Unitrack system i would have not built a layout due to physical limitations. Also Atlas has made some great engines but they have also made some real bombs. Fvm with thier wheels and now the Gevo that seems to be a step above everybodys else's locomotives i'm in for now, 6 Gevos on order so they better be great. Bluford, when they announced the 86' auto car i knew i would buy a few but little did i know i have bought almost all of them with more on order. Can't forget BLMA, great products.

Dave

[Puddington]

This thread is overdue for a Canadian perspective:

North American Railcar Corporation for entering the N Scale freight car market with their Hawker Siddeley cylindrical hopper, which was well executed and will be re-run in 2010 with new roadnames . . . . .

Tim, they released a car that was, essentially already done by IM, then charged way too much for it... and badmouthed their competition by musing about bent detail parts. A competitor whom they had sponsored many, many runs of the same car. Yes, the HS car is different than the one IM does, but do we really need this when there are no slab side covered hoppers in N, or PSC vans or CP EV vans, MIL bulkhead flats, sodium chlorate cylindricals, Canadian 52'-6" and 65' gons? I think they should have brought something else to market... something that actually filled a gap.

I wouldn't pat them on the back for this, but that's just me.

I would pat them on the back for bringing anything Canadian..period. Yes; the slab sides are more needed; more asked for and more logicial; but; as I pointed out elsewehere; we don't run their firm so; I'm happy they did something.......

I'm so in for slabsides I could negotiate a second mortgage but if I don't own the compnay all I can do is comment and vote with my wallet................

[lock4244]

Tim, they released a car that was, essentially already done by IM, then charged way too much for it... and badmouthed their competition by musing about bent detail parts. A competitor whom they had sponsored many, many runs of the same car. Yes, the HS car is different than the one IM does, but do we really need this when there are no slab side covered hoppers in N, or PSC vans or CP EV vans, MIL bulkhead flats, sodium chlorate cylindricals, Canadian 52'-6" and 65' gons? I think they should have brought something else to market... something that actually filled a gap.

As you say, a different car, engineered to a higher level hence the price, and sold through a different business model which allows the manufacturer to re-invest the proceeds directly into development of another Canadian HO & N Scale car which we will see in 2010.  Too recent a prototype for me, but if one is into the modern Canadian scene, another variant of these cars cannot be a bad thing.

As for the other cars, some you have mentioned are under consideration for future offerings, and they are very receptive to suggestions.  I have already made a pitch for the MIL 71'-0" bulkhead flats.  They do wish to avoid cars under consideration by other manufacturers, which is why they passed on the slab sides.

I think that anyone who brings a Canadian prototype freight car to market deserves a pat on the back, and this manufacturer also deserves credit for their equal support of HO and N Scales - everything they produce is offered in both scales whenever possible.  Unfortunately most of their offerings are too modern for me, but that is their niche in the market.

Tim

Normally I'd agree Tim, but I feel the cylindrical was done as a direct attack on IM and as a way to cut them out of doing a particular paint scheme. I mean, if they were so concerned about not doing a car someone else was considering, why do one that has essentially been done? NARC has released their cylindrical, yet another company supposedly considering doing a slab side has not made an announcement yet, let alone produce one. Now had PWRS, err, NARC done a slab side it would already be on the market. I find the benevolence arguement to be quite weak in this case. I suppport makers on CDN prototypes more than most here (Sandro being the exception). I have 230+ IM cylindricals (incl many PWRS special runs), 18 of the Hobbycraft chopped GP9's, 17 Rapido passenger cars and there will be more when they do the leg rest in VIA, yet I totally avoided the NARC car cause they just seemed to be doing it for the wrong reasons... it's duplicating someone elses effort needlessly.

A slab side or MIL bulkhead is needed far more than another cylindrical, IMO, and they'll not get a dime from me. The whole thing reaked and I will not support this type of BS with my hard earned money. Sad, because they would have earned alot of my money by doing a slab side (which is still not announced by whoever is considering it  : ) or an MIL bulkhead... a whole lot of money.

[John]

Would someone post a pic of the "slab side" hoppers?

[TrainCat2]

PGE Slab-Side Covered Hopper

[John]

Thanks. we do need these in plastic .. btw ..this looks really nice Bob

[BCR 570]

I would pat them on the back for bringing anything Canadian..period. Yes; the slab sides are more needed;

Well said, Pud - I need quite a few slab side hoppers also.  My decision to model Dawson Creek was inspired in part by a photograph which Brian Elchlepp took there in 1985 - it appears on page 204 of Route Of The Cariboo.  There are no less than four slab side cars in the photo!  In addition to grain shipments from Dawson Creek and Fort St. John, they were also used to ship dry cement to Fort St. John for oil well casings, so I do need a few of them.

I'm so in for slabsides I could negotiate a second mortgage

Well . . . 

Normally I'd agree Tim, but I feel the cylindrical was done as a direct attack on IM and as a way to cut them out of doing a particular paint scheme.

Mike:  You would be wrong to think this.  The Government of Saskatchewan were only willing to license a model of their cars if the model itself was correct.  Intermountain was not involved in the development of the Saskatchewan repaint scheme and did not have the correct car.  NARC was and did.

I mean, if they were so concerned about not doing a car someone else was considering, why do one that has essentially been done? NARC has released their cylindrical, yet another company supposedly considering doing a slab side has not made an announcement yet, let along produce one.

I cannot comment on this point too much further except to say that they did not want to duplicate someone else's efforts, regardless of the other party's timeline.  Besides, you have already stated your preference not to have two companies do the "same" car.  Of course, there are several different variations of the slab side cars and we would be well served to have more than one variant.  I do know that the Canadian manufacturers talk with each other and are very keen to avoid duplicating each other's work.


The decision by NARC to manufacture the HSC cylindrical hopper should also be seen in the context of a company progressing from special runs of other people's cars to producing their own tooling, and progressing from releasing paint schemes on cars that are somewhat correct to cars that are 100 per cent correct.  There are limits imposed when depending on other people's production schedules and tooling restrictions.  When you produce your own tooling, you can decide what level of detail to include, how far you want to go with it, and what paint schemes you wish to release.  There was a desire to have the correct car for paint schemes seen on the HSC cars, and the Saskatchewan repaints hastened the decision to go with this car first.  I would not feel too sorry for Intermountain as they have done exceptionally well with their NSC cylindrical hopper, thanks in part to the many PWRS special runs.  Their car will continue to be an important one for Canadian modellers who require the NSC version.  As someone modelling 1977, I have to wait for the Marine Industries version!


As Pud states, any company which steps up to the plate with a newly tooled freight car in N Scale, be it Canadian or American, has in my view contributed significantly to the N Scale market for that year.  If it is their first N Scale car, as in the case of BLMA, NARC and TLT, so much the better!  I can remember the days when new N Scale freight cars were few and far between, and this year we have seen new ones from BLMA, ESM, NARC, and TLT to name a few.


Tim

[lock4244]

Effort would have been better spent on a different car. Should we applaude if they decide to do an NSC boxcar in N?

The cylindrical was a duplicative effort. If a paint scheme justifies that to some, than so be it. I can not see how this serves to advance N scale in general, and Canadian modelers in particular. I've paid through the nose for the TLT NSC boxcar because no one else does on in N, however the cylindrical is already available (and at a better price point). Sorry, I can't support it.

[lashedup]

I'd humbly submit that any manufacturer that managed to weather the crap economy this past year deserves a major pat on the back.

On a bigger scale I'd just like to say thanks to all those individuals and companies that continue to churn stuff out for us to spend money on. Everything is improving by leaps and bounds and all the new guys out there are helping push things even further. Kudos and I look forward to next year even more.

[Denver Road Doug]

Geez, you guys, it's Christmas - drink EGGNOG - not KOOL-AID.

This place is SERIOUSLY turning into a mutual self admiration society.

The question was who was responsible for the most GROWTH in N-scale in 2009.

The answer is - Kato and MTL.  There is no other answer.

Most of the brands you mention aren't even carried at the Model Railroad Shop in Piscataway - the #1 model train shop in the NYC area. They don't even know who FVM is - and they carried about a half dozen Top-Gons - which sat on the shelf for about 6 months.

The hot movers are the MTL monthly releases and anything from Kato. I hate to break it to you - but I've been there and people say "I'll take that cute SD70ACE in Orange to go with my New Haven passenger train."

Cmon and be honest or ask a different question like - "most exciting announcement" or "best niche product for true 1950's passenger train fans"....

The growth of this hobby will come from products that the largest possible market can understand or relate to. I think the Hiawatha will be one of them - so next year the answer could be totally different. But give credit where it is due - the the firms that keep customers coming in the door and buying stuff in a tough economy.

OK, I kinda think this post might have been a joke and that a comment about skipping the eggnog and getting back on the meds would be funny, but I'm just not sure...

Nevertheless, I worked past the MTL thing and the parts of the rest of the post could be valid. (again, ignoring any reference to MTL)

Our local shop has carried a "decent" stock of BLMA, and even a few TopGons, much to my surprise.  But outside of that, forget about anything else other than the extreme MAINSTREAM stuff.  People balked (myself included) when Athearn and Kato announced Bethgon coalporters, but quite honestly that's the only way that model ever made it into my LHS...at least as new stock.  (consignment notwithstanding)  FVM, ha...good luck.

Anyway, to the question of which N manufacturer is most important to the growth of N-scale?  Tough call, but I'll throw out a pros/cons take on my front runners:

BLMA
Pros: Released a top-notch freight car that I couldn't use, and two more announced.  Had the spine car been here in '09, I think it would hands down win this award. (making a lot of assumptions, of course)
Cons: I'm getting the impression that the detail parts pipeline is dead, which is a shame.  And it's only a matter of time before Craig realizes he can make mega-bucks applying his marketing skills elsewhere.  Fun while it lasted.

FVM
Pros: Thinking big, which is good.  Love the grab iron philosophy and would purchase an era-appropriate loco that incorporated this.
Cons: Now has competition in the wheel market, jury still out on the loco, and if they release another boxcar before something else I might just puke.  And for the love of God pay attention to the RD4 artwork!!!

Athearn
Pros: L-P-G!!! L-P-G!!! L-P-G!!!  Athearn is releasing some great freight cars finally.  They're also correcting their first locomotive with an F59PHI revamp.
Cons: Not much.  They need to expand their high end models, and bash some of the MDCMan stuff in the head and upgrade them, like the Thrall hi-side gons.  Would love to see them bring the CF7  and UPS trailers to the table.

Atlas
Pros: Their master line of freight cars is superb and is a strength.  C55 track is a winner.  Master line locos are also still at the top of the industry right under Kato and bests them on availability, road names, and detail.  And whadaya wanna bet the "newly tooled" C55 flex magically works with pizza cutters...after MTL finally fixed them?  Talk about peeing in MTL's granola cereal.
Cons: Very disappointing year for Atlas.  The China debacle has seemed to affect them much more than others for whatever reason.  I hope the Trainman stuff is growing n-scale like everyone says it is.  To me its bittersweet but I will concede that it is important strategically for Atlas.  Master line stuff across the board is trickling out and/or late for delivery. (as a result?)

Trainworx
Pros: Seem to have pretty good attention to detail.  Very specific cars released in the laundry list of roads but at least a few good freight cars in ther arsenal.  Seems the auto boxes are a hit.  My impression is they have great potential.
Cons: Probably the smallest of the major players in N.

I think if I picked solely on the contributions to n-scale for the year, I'd have to go with BLMA and Athearn in a tie.

[Walkercolt]

I'll insert some "topic drift" here, if no one minds. The lack of detail parts (like 5 chime Nathan horns for the Frisco) is becoming a problem for N-scale. Sunrise Enterprises is gone, as well as Cal-Freight. Detail Associates has very few N-scale parts available. There's no real money in the detail part business. The people who have made them for N, have done it as a "labor of love" rather than as cold-hearted businessmen. I don't have the money or health to get into casting good detail parts, or getting it done and "distributing" them, but it would be nice if someone could.

[Denver Road Doug]

We almost need a "co-op" for maintaining the masters and/or molds for detail parts once "labour of love" becomes simply "labor".  This is where a dedicated N-Scale association would be nice.  Yes we have N-Trak (I'm not into triple-track modules) and N-Scale Collector (I'm not a collector) and the NMRA (I'm not in HO) so there is a gap.