Woodchip car travels

[sirenwerks]

I've decided on a change, from contemporary East Coast industrial shortline focus to the early 1970s on the Western Pacific. The WP's status as a 4-axle EMD hold out and the period's propensity towards boxcars, the graphical colorfulness of the rolling stock of the period, and the use of cabeese, and the scenery, have finally sold me. It doesn't hurt that there was plenty of run-through color from the early BN as well from the WP's High Line.

In pouring through the books on the WP I've become interested in the its converted gondolas for woodchip service. I plan on purchasing some of the new Trainworx gons to convert with wooden side extensions ala the prototype. This conversion is similar to that of other neighboring roads, such as the NP and Milwaukee. In fact, there's a MILW version available at the LHS now that I'm tempted to buy.

I know they're 'my trains' and I can do whatever I want but, with my recent epiphany, my interest on prototype operations is growing exponentially and I am becoming more 'fearful' of angering the proto-Gods with snafus and foobies. And there's no point in spending my limited hobby dollars on rolling stock I 'can't' run. However, in the name of diversity, I'd love to be able to run cars from the NP, MILW, SP, etc. on 'my' WP but I've yet to find any photographic proof to allow my urge.

So I'm wondering, does anyone know - in the early 70s did Western roads' woodchip cars roam onto neighboring railroads, or were they basically in captive service on their home road?

[RockGp40]

I've decided on a change, from contemporary East Coast industrial shortline focus to the early 1970s on the Western Pacific.

I'm so disappointed.....     ;D

[sirenwerks]

It was the WP or Chessie, and we all know how Lee would flip out.

[wazzou]

In most cases, if not 100% of the time in the PNW, the roads woodchip cars remained in captive service to serve online customers.

[CoalPorter]

Didn't Micro-Trains do a run of WP wood chip cars with high side extensions with the KEEP CALIFORNIA GREEN slogan?

The WP was mainly a "link railroad" running from California to Utah with very few online customers, so it's totally prototypical to run cars from just about any railroad. They did handle lots of pooled auto box cars because they  shipped autos from Ford and GM plants in the Bay Area of California.

[sirenwerks]

Intermountain did its outside braced wood gon with high sides in the Keep California Green scheme. They called them sugar beet cars. Yikes. The proto gons were steel, the extensions wood and they had a tapered top with a pinched end. Both Trainworx and MT did the gons sans extensions, the former matches the prototype best.

I appreciate your assessment of the WP's traffic, but I'm hoping for proof of the practice. As of now the evidence is stacked against it. I'm curious where the woodchips out of their online mills, such as the one @ Crescent Mills, went though. I haven't figured that out yet. Hopefully the posts I made on the WP lists will bring me definitive knowledge.

[GaryHinshaw]

Excellent move Bryan!  (But having grown up in CA in the '70s I am biased.)  I think wazzou's response about the chip gons is right, but it would be fun to research the question some more.

Also, CoalPorter is right, you'll need lots of Bluford & Trainworx auto parts boxes, and you can interchange open auto-racks with Lee:

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=267403&nseq=8

And the Milpitas F's, with a mustard yellow Datsun in pursuit:

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=237904&nseq=36
http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=238179&nseq=27

I think if I were going to model this road, I'd go for Altamont because it's small (modelable) and still had the SP line weaving through:

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=240523&nseq=19

and Oakland for the CZ street running:

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=217586&nseq=46

But alas, little if any chip traffic on these segments.  Ayways, whatever stretch you choose, get to work!  I want to see the results!


Gary

[wm3798]

WP is an outstanding choice.  The through traffic was very similar in nature to the WM's Alpha Jets, and the WP was similarly well run and slippery amid a formidable group of powerful competitors... and likewise it lost its independence.

I know in the east, wood chips were typically captive traffic due to the fact that it was typically a low value short haul, and the large number of paper plants and vast acreage of wood.  Not sure how that translates out west.  Judging by those pictures around Altamont, there aren't any trees, so the chips have to come from somewhere!

Lee

[CoalPorter]

Wern't the WP and the WM started by the same person? I think they were both Gould roads?

[wm3798]

They weren't started by the same person, but yes, they were the bookends of Gould's transcontinental dream...  It wouldn't surprise me to see similar engineering on things like bridges and tunnels...

Lee

[GaryHinshaw]

A few more shots of WP adrenaline:

CZ over Altamont in spring with the SP line down below.

Milpitas yard with Fords aplenty.

Colorful lashups.

Stock car trains in 1974.  Who knew?

Of course Stockton would be a good choice too.

It used to snow in the California mountains.

Auto parts in Altamot - one more time.

The "other" loop.

Lee - who were the interior partners in the transcontinental plans?  D&RGW? CB&Q? How about east of Chicago?  You guys could revive the idea in N: the Alpha-Zephyr Route.

[Chris333]

I had to look up the loop:
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=39.910185~-120.807467&style=h&lvl=17&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

[3rdrail]

Lee - who were the interior partners in the transcontinental plans?  D&RGW? CB&Q? How about east of Chicago?  You guys could revive the idea in N: the Alpha-Zephyr Route.

For a time, Gould had control of the Missouri Pacific and subsidiary roads as well as the Wabash. He also had the Wabash Pittsburgh Terminal, later known as the Pittsburgh & West Virginia. The "Q" was firmly in the Hill camp. The Gould affiliation of MP and WAB lasted into the N&W merger as ART. The only gap was Ohio.

[sirenwerks]

The Rio Grande was a Gould road and, because the WP was so late in development and could not take advantage of land grants like the pampered SP, it was financed by the Grande. In fact, in the beginning, the WP almost sucked the Grande down with it into collapse. After restructuring though, the WP became profitable. In oart because it was very resourceful road, buying FEC steam when that road went belly up and using an interesting mix of proven loco designs from the Grande and SP. And it was one of the very first to completely dieselize.

While the San Jose Turn is very modelable but the Milipitas Fs are past the time frame I am aiming for. I am really leaning towards Portola eastward, including the Loyalton Branch, maybe all the way to Winnemucca, so the Reno Branch would also be in the mix somehow. This way I have through trains with a mixed bag of freight cars pulled by 4 axle power - including a host of F3s, F7s and even former CZ FP7s with their wings clipped - and the mill @ Loyalton. And the scenery change in that stretch would be fun, from Sierra Nevada mountains to Nevada desert.

Lee, this would be very similar to your layout. There's the yard @ Portola, with trains coming on-stage at it and heading east stage right just like you have it, and your papermill would be replaced by the lumber mill @ Loyalton on its branch. And there may be the chance to have GN/CBQ/NP/SP&S/BN pool power showing up from time to time.

There's a plethora of research materials already organized, like a brand-spankin' new book on the road's stations, with many plans. The hard part so far is researching the actual industries on line, even though there weren't that many. That, and figuring out what's available in N now fits the period's rolling stock. All of the WP's road diesel fleet is already available from Atlas, Life Like, Kato, and Intermountain. The only thing left for me to crave is more 60s and 70s era autos for my WP employees to drive and to fill the open autoracks.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

buying FEC steam when that road went belly up

Whoa there. The FEC never went belly up. It DID offload a lot of iron during the depression though (after it closed the Key West extension and the Florida property bubble broke).