I've been FP7ed!

[davefoxx]

Forum,

I received my Intermountain FP7 today.  Without really pulling the locomotive out of the box and no opportunity to run it yet (I'm at work), I must say that I am very pleased.  The first thing that I noticed is flush window glass and freestanding windshield wipers.  Overall, I'm pleased with the look of this model, although I am sure it probably still rides too high on the rails like IM's other F-units.

Now, where are those #$%^& Digitrax #DN163I2 decoders that are supposed to be drop-ins?

Dave Foxx

[wm3798]

Dave,
I've got a pair of the F-7's, and I don't see the ride height as a big issue... but then mine are painted black...
I think someone put the calipers to the IM and Kato models and determined that the Katos look better because the trucks are actually oversized...

If you can't get your hands on the board for this, it's pretty easy to hardwire a DZ125 to the stock board.
you just have to cut some of the printed circuits...

Lee

[sirenwerks]

I think someone put the calipers to the IM and Kato models and determined that the Katos look better because the trucks are actually oversized...

I don't remember it that way. Both units were the same overall height, but the Kato unit rode (prototypically) lower because the body extended to the correct height above the trucks. Not only did the IM unit ride higher, but it took its fuel tank with it, so there was more air between trucks and body AND bottom of fuel tank and rail top.

[wm3798]

There is one other subtle difference...

Intermountain actually produces theirs...  Sure they're slow in coming, but Kato hasn't dropped a new batch of F units in about a decade.... and then you can get an F unit in any color you want, as long as it's UP.

I'm usually looking at the top of my trains, so the air ride height isn't a substantial problem for me.
Lee

[sirenwerks]

I keep holding out that Atlas will produce the full line of F units, with correct body/truck spacing, constant availability, and flavors for everyone.

[asarge]

I keep holding out that Atlas will produce the full line of F units, with correct body/truck spacing, constant availability, and flavors for everyone.

The world will end before those conditions are met. Not many Atlas loco's are constantly availble and with 3-4 companies producing F units, I'd say that markets pretty well tapped.

[wm3798]

Not necessarily true... HO supports about 5 or 6 brands of F units.  I think N scale can handle 2 or three.

Also, with Intermountain, you have a manufacturer who talks a good game, but really hasn't followed through real well with delivery, and with Kato, you're lucky if they release 3 road names in a decade.  And Bachmann Spectrum has been redesigned 3 times, and they still haven't gotten it right, plus, they've only ever produced 4 or 5 paint schemes going all the way back to the Plus series design.

Given the Atlas business model, I don't see them doing the full run of F's, but there's got to be room in their production schedule do one phase or another!

Lee

[davefoxx]

Dave,
I've got a pair of the F-7's, and I don't see the ride height as a big issue... but then mine are painted black...
I think someone put the calipers to the IM and Kato models and determined that the Katos look better because the trucks are actually oversized...

If you can't get your hands on the board for this, it's pretty easy to hardwire a DZ125 to the stock board.
you just have to cut some of the printed circuits...

Lee

I have to admit that the ride height isn't a huge issue for me either, but it is apparent when checking out the model at eye level.  Thankfully, my layout at about 48-50" off the floor makes me have a birds eye, too.

Depending on the availability of the DN163I2 (I still haven't seen a release date), maybe I'll consider trying a DZ125.  I haven't had too much luck in hardwiring decoders, though.

But, either way, this locomotive runs very smoothly, and I am really impressed with the looks.  Fortunately, I do not have the "wavy" stainless steel grilles on the side.  These seem to fit very well.  Admittedly, it's not the quietest engine that I own, but I am running a DC locomotive on a DCC layout.  Once converted to DCC, it may quiet down somewhat.  We'll see.

Dave

[wm3798]

I wonder if the noise comes from the longer drive train for the FP?  My F's are as quiet as can be... real silky runners...

L

[davefoxx]

I wonder if the noise comes from the longer drive train for the FP?  My F's are as quiet as can be... real silky runners...

L

Don't get me wrong, this locomotive runs very well.  I think the "noise" is the DC motor with AC juice pouring through it.  When you bring 'em to a stop, they really squeal.

Dave

[Mark5]

My FP7s run silky smooth on DC ...

[gunner]

I wonder if the noise comes from the longer drive train for the FP?  My F's are as quiet as can be... real silky runners...

L

Don't get me wrong, this locomotive runs very well.  I think the "noise" is the DC motor with AC juice pouring through it.  When you bring 'em to a stop, they really squeal.

Dave

That noise will be made by any pure DC locomotive on a DCC powered system.

DCC is an Alternating Current system. 

Excuse me if I seem to be preaching/teaching, but the cause of the noise is that the current is changing from positive polarity to negative polarity many thousands of times a second.  This causes the motor in the locomotive to change directions for each change in polarity.  If this happens at the frequencies that humans hear sound, you hear it.

I'm guessing that your sound is close to the tone of fingernails on chalk boards.  That's at about 8000 cycles per second.  I'll bet that it goes weeeee uh weeeee uh weeee until it stops.

OBTW... Lee, remember the '80's?  We didn't get squat!  At least you have kit bash fodder for that WM monstrosity that you're making.  It is nice work; better lent to a N&W class Z or better yet a class A.  Smile, I forgot the stuff for making the smiley face.  Maybe a senior moment.

Bob

[davefoxx]

That noise will be made by any pure DC locomotive on a DCC powered system.

DCC is an Alternating Current system. 

Excuse me if I seem to be preaching/teaching, but the cause of the noise is that the current is changing from positive polarity to negative polarity many thousands of times a second.  This causes the motor in the locomotive to change directions for each change in polarity.  If this happens at the frequencies that humans hear sound, you hear it.

I'm guessing that your sound is close to the tone of fingernails on chalk boards.  That's at about 8000 cycles per second.  I'll bet that it goes weeeee uh weeeee uh weeee until it stops.

Bob,

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was trying to describe.  I probably shouldn't have mentioned the "noise," because I know that there is nothing wrong with the locomotive.  As I said, it runs really well, so I hope that no one thinks that I am complaining about the quality of this engine.  I recognize the "noise" as a DC locomotive running on a DCC layout.  I also don't leave it on the layout, unless it is running, because I have heard that it could overheat and damage the motor.

By the way, here it is.  Ain't she purty?


Dave

[POVC]

Now, where are those #$%^& Digitrax #DN163I2 decoders that are supposed to be drop-ins?

Dave Foxx

Just an FYI - If the DN163I2's are anything like the DN163I1's, they will not be pure "drop-in's"; you'll have to un-solder the lead light leads from the analog circuit board and resolder them to the decoder.

Several members of BANTRAK have converted FP-7's using the DZ125; they remove the analog board totally and drop the decoder in its place.  The use the screws that hold the light board in place for the "track" wires, solder the motor wires to the brush caps, and the light wire to the headlight leads.

Tim

[asarge]

Not necessarily true... HO supports about 5 or 6 brands of F units.  I think N scale can handle 2 or three.

Also, with Intermountain, you have a manufacturer who talks a good game, but really hasn't followed through real well with delivery, and with Kato, you're lucky if they release 3 road names in a decade.  And Bachmann Spectrum has been redesigned 3 times, and they still haven't gotten it right, plus, they've only ever produced 4 or 5 paint schemes going all the way back to the Plus series design.

Given the Atlas business model, I don't see them doing the full run of F's, but there's got to be room in their production schedule do one phase or another

I would wager quite a bet that Atlas won't be doing F units in n scale.  IM and Kato pretty much have the F(P) unit market for teh forseeable future. Besides there are lots of other projects that haven't been doen by anyone in n scale yet.....or more to the point not done well in N scale that they might or might not be moving forward on.