Conrail bandwagon

[wm3798]

My first railfanning experiences were at Enola Yard near Harrisburg in 1979.  The blue paint was just beginning to make a showing, and I'll never forget the sight of the dead line...  Alco's, ancient geeps, and every color under the sun, especially black!
I remember the 4 track Broad Way, and green passenger cars idling on weed strewn sidings.
I recall former EL SDP45's leaning into the rear of tonnage and giving it a shove around Horseshoe, back when it was nice and seedy, a rusty K-4 in the play pen at the top.
There was a former Lehigh Century in a consist of about 6 or 8 locomotives sitting near Alto tower, coughing and wheezing.
I would dispute the notion that there was no history there.  I would argue that Conrail WAS history personified.  The historic shift of the industrialized northeast, the unshackling of the railroads from regulatory bondage, and the resurrection of truly quality rail service came about as a result of Conrail.
I would also contend that outside of paying a few bills and passing the necessary legislation, the best thing the government did was stay out of the way and let the railroaders do their jobs.  There's a lesson to be learned there.
What started out as a long odds dark horse, ended up being an innovative, successful, and financially lucrative operation that was coveted by the two major players who refused to get their hands dirty back in the '70's when they could have gotten in "on the ground floor".

If nothing else, Conrail makes a great story.
Lee

[asciibaron]

i have been trying like crazy to not model the roads i grew up with - i wanted to bring back to life the things i missed, things that were before i was born.  i don't see many PC modelers, but they are growing in numbers.  Conrail is tempting in the 1977 period because in the decade since the PRR, there had been so much that shifted in the northeast railroad landscape. 

the paint outs, the line consolidations, the change to larger freight cars, bigger diesels, and the rise of the trailer.  i grew up watching Conrail and Chessie and both those lines had character - separate from their earlier lives.  i like the Conrail scheme - it says "utility" and "conservative" corporate values, and Conrail was both of those. 

$11 billion selling price - that is not a failure, that is an empire that was prized - they did a ton of heavy lifting to make the railroad a system.

-Steve

[Chris333]

I grew up with Conrail. My Dad worked for Conrail. We got mail all the time with Conrail logos all over it including some employee magazine (forget the name)


...but Conrail didn't run steam locomotives 

[rswinnerton]

I'm in the Conrail flock for several reasons, but most of all it's what I grew up with. I lived near Huntingdon, PA and all we had were blue locomotives. Now, 25 years later, I've found a bunch of people who like Conrail and are about my same age (The CRHS) to pal around and drink beer with. I think in the grand scheme of things, it's always what you grew up with. Look at the average age of the CRHS members, then compare it with the PRRTHS. I'd be willing to bet some cold hard cash that in 10 years, the CRHS will have a huge membership roster, while the PRRTHS dwindles. Not because of the group itself, but the people who remember it will be gone. 50 years from now, I'm sure the CRHS will be in the same position while the NSTHS booms.. Picture this... Two old gummers sitting around talking about the good old days when Dash-9s used to run on the mainline, not just in museums...
Life goes on...
Russ

[3rdrail]

Personally, I LOATHED Conrail, have had the bad fortune of working for it for its first two years. By that time, sales offices had to submit 38 monthly and five weekly reports... Ed Jordan was the biggest jerk ever put in charge of a railroad...The "two worms in love" wasn't as good as the "keystone" and the "goose egg", but the "cracked wheel" logo was truly the pits.

The PRR had an economist on the payroll, Zacharia Chaffee, who stayed on with PC. When PC bankrupted, he predicted how much money would be lost, what the feds would do, and how long it would take. He was eerily close in his predictions.

If the ICC hadn't intervened, NYC and Chessie would have merged, and PRR and N&W would also have merged, and there never would have been a Penn Central.

[wm3798]

And ironically, that's more or less what we've ended up with!

Jordan might have been the bureaucrats' bureaucrat, but once L.Stanley Crane assumed the helm, things really started happening.  He pushed harder than anyone to get Staggers passed, and presided over the emergence of the system as a viable entity.

I'm sure that the view from the inside wasn't pretty, but there was no way the company could keep doing things the PRR way.  That hadn't worked for 30 years.

Similarly, as much as I rant and rave about Chessie, the reality is there were things they had to do remain competitive.  While there were certainly horror stories from my friends who were WM men, the bottom line is that the company managed to get through the 70's without going bankrupt, and survived to become one of the "Final Four".
Lee

[asciibaron]

If the ICC hadn't intervened, NYC and Chessie would have merged, and PRR and N&W would also have merged, and there never would have been a Penn Central.

and that would have led to a larger collapse - the N&W and C&O/B&O were much smaller lines and could not help in routes or revenue - the B&O was drying up and the N&W was looking for revenue outside of the coal fields and thus the push to absorb the Wabash and NKP - this gave them gateway traffic.  the C&O/B&O "merger" was designed to keep the B&O from failing.  coal and steel were dying and that meant new revenue sources needed to be found.  new revenue was not coming from the Northeast - the EL was losing the battle and the CNJ and LV joined forces in PA to reduce costs. 

no railroad could absorb the losses that NYC and PRR had, and PC would have worked had they done it 10 years earlier, maybe.  there were too many railroads fighting for too little traffic and no amount of corporate consolidation could have prevented the collapse of revenue - the industrial base leaving meant there was not enough traffic for one small railroad, what would one massive railroad do?

-Steve

[asciibaron]

if you look at the traffic that Conrail rebounded with you will see it was mostly bulk commodities and trailers on flat cars and then containers.  those containers were not filled up going east to west... they were and are bringing goods east from western ports. 

the Staggers Act could not happen until a consolidation of the Northeast railroad landscape occurred - no single railroad was going to be the price leader.

things had to get very bad so they could get better - and Conrail's first leadership was tasked with a massive undertaking - shed losses as fast as possible but maintain revenue sources and keep them happy.  they had to answer to customers and Congress.  not a situation for "nice guys."

-Steve
(i have no idea what i'm talking about - but i did stay at a Holidaysburg Inn)

[Dave V]

Greg,

I look at it this way...  I used to re-enact the Civil War as a Union soldier.  I didn't actually live that war (duh!) but saw it through documentaries and battlefield tours.  But if someone were to want to start an Iraq War reenacting group, I wouldn't understand.  I lived it and didn't much care for it.

So it is with Conrail.  You lived PC and early CR and din't like it.  We didn't live it; we saw it from the outside.

[Puddington]

WOW; ASK A COUPLE OF INNOCENT QUESTIONS AND INSPIRE A PAGE AND A HALF OF REALLY NEAT COMMENTARY IN 12 HOURS.

Facinating responses all; I see that the short (by railway standards) history of Conrail was not without some important watershed moments. When I said "failed" I wasn't being critical; my defintiion of a merger is, due to having been merged three times and losing a little piece of one's own self each time, is "faiure". There is no doubt the price tag indicates the value of the enterprise.

I guess I was focusing my railfanning during the period on CP and in the west with BN and that ilk; it was, after all, where I was. Conrail was the furthest thing from my mind. I have never warmed to the colours nor the worm logo but I see that the reasons behind the obvious affinity for Conrail, and the significant contribution that they made to their era of railroading was indeed enough to garner a loyal following.

Thanks for the education gang.....

[Ed Kapuscinski]

BTW, if you ever want to check out a great book on the subject:
The Men Who Loved Trains:
http://books.google.com/books?id=sn7i_n-p-78C&dq=the+men+who+loved+trains&pg=PP1&ots=KdGDTx3uMo&sig=rRKTSC66izYBFUr15CEMBwgueWA&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fq%3Dthe%2Bmen%2Bwho%2Bloved%2Btrains%26sourceid%3Dmozilla2%26ie%3Dutf-8%26oe%3Dutf-8&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail

[Denver Road Doug]

BN and Conrail were in existance almost the same amount of time, and ended with the same result.

Interestingly, this creates a challenge for the respective historical societies.  I've had this discussion with one of the officers in the Conrail group.  Neither had steam or an appreciable amount of passenger service.  Thus the appeal to older railfans/modelers is limited.  Both had relatively short histories, although I think both had relatively dynamic, colorful, and interesting quarter centuries.

[Dave V]

Seeing steam on tourist lines is like seeing the lion at the zoo.  It's pretty cool.  But never having seen the lion in the wild, I can only dream of what I'm missing.

So as much as I like steam (and that's a big part of why I'm keeping my PRR 1956 roster), it's not enough to keep me from wanting to do CR in 1980.  Really, it's the inconsistent quality of N scale steam that works against my love of steam.  I know there are some winners in N scale steam (such as the Spectrum 2-8-0 and the Kato Mike, as well as out-of-my-era MDC/Athearn old time engines), but the effort rquired to bash a full Pennsy steam roster isn't worth it unless the full spectrum of reliable mechanisms exists.

[asciibaron]

i have never really been interested in steam locomotive, beyond the first few used on the B&O.  having worked in the model railroad industry leading projects on a few of the big "must haves" i really didn't see the appeal - the models were as unreliable as the prototype.  when i think of Railroad, my mind's eye sees Conrail SD40-2's with trailers in tow or Chessie SD50's with autoracks.

that's Railroading to this is young man.

my son will see Maple MACs and ES44's hauling containers of trash

-Steve

[ai5629]

Here is my two cents on Conrail.  I was introduced to model railroading and railfanning in 1984.  I fondly remember my first trips to the tracks with my dad as a teenager.  Those first trips were to Horseshoe Curve and Pitcairn on the Pittsburgh Line.  I was luck enough to see two SD35's on the Curve in October of 84 along with an SD45.  I saw one painted out GP38 too.  I got into trains too late to witness the Conrail rainbow, so the urge to model it is not that great with me.  I model 1984 since it was the end of the SD35, SD45, GP30, GP35, and U23B's along with the introduction of B36-7's and SD50's.  The boxcar was still used with regularity, but it was fast becoming a mode to only transport paper and lumber products.  The steel industry had collapsed, but a few strong mills remained.  Truck trains consisted of trailers on flatcars, not double stacks (boring).  I railfanned Conrail with my dad until I was old enough to drive.  I then went on trips with a friend or by myself.  I met an engineer on Conrail who took me out on some trips.  Those were awesome.  I roamed the Altoona Yards and the Hollidaysburg shops in search of Conrail's massive freight car fleet.  Conrail was my PRR, and that's why I model it.  My father talked about what he remembers of the PRR living along side the Pittsburth Line in Homewood in the 1940's and 1950's.  The steam engines and those quiet diesels.  My grandfather worked for the PRR for 40 years.  I have a fondness for the PRR, and I would love to model it, but it is so hard to model two eras.  It's nice to see so many guys modeling Conrail.  In the early 90's, I felt like the only one modeling Conrail in N scale.  Thanks for reading along.